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cmac2012 05-04-2014 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elchivito (Post 3324666)
Conservative mythology. I know very few "progressives" or liberals who inherently trust government.
x2
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 3324581)
"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.
:rolleyes:

aklim 05-04-2014 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle (Post 3324651)
Please note that the point I was trying to make had to do with "If the people fear the government it is a terrible thing" vs. the Bush ear Conservative doctrine of "Who cares if they love me as long as they fear me".

Today Conservatives say that people fear the government because there is a terrible person in the White House. Eight years ago the only reason, at least according to Conservatives, for anyone to fear the government was because they were in the wrong and not the government.

When you truly think you can do no wrong you have lost all sense of reason and any action against anyone is just fine and dandy. After all, as Cheney said, the Constitution is just a piece of paper. Given that mindset why follow the rule of law?

It is refreshing to hear Conservatives admit that the government can make mistakes. There was an eight year period (which lined up with the eight years that Bush was in power) where questioning the actions of the government made you something besides a true American and the normal response of Conservatives was "If you don't like here then why don't you leave?"

It is weird for folks that don't believe in evolution to have evolved, but I am glad to see it taking place.
But I have also seen the reverse. So what of it? When their side is doing it, life is good whether they are conservative or liberal. When it is the other side and they don't agree with it, they will cry and scream. It is par for the course.

aklim 05-04-2014 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle (Post 3324654)
Nope.

One side distrusts the government depending on the situation and the subject. They consider the facts available and make up their mind one way or the other.

The other side listens to Fox News and does what they are told.
Why don't you make it simple since we already know your bias? Conservative/Republican = Bad. Liberal/Democrat = Good. It's not like you are really fooling anyone. :rolleyes:

aklim 05-04-2014 01:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3324665)
Someone broke into your house? People been migrating in search of work for a lonnnngggg time. See your ancestors' history for more info on that.
I'm not sure I get it. Clarification please. I am looking for work but what has legal migration got to do with just sneaking across the border? I'm hungry and looking for food. What has it got to do with be breaking into your refrigerator and helping myself vs trying to find a way to earn it?

I'm not very fluent on my ancestor's history. Perhaps you can shed some light on it? I would be very interested to know if they broke the laws of the land in search for work or not.

aklim 05-04-2014 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elchivito (Post 3324666)
Conservative mythology. I know very few "progressives" or liberals who inherently trust government.
OTOH, I do. As long as it is their favorite guy in charge. Are conservatives any different? I don't see it unless it is the liberal that is stating it. I can honestly say that from conversation with liberals and conservatives, their support of government depends on whether it is them and their favorite guy at the trough or not. If so, life is good. If not, govt sucks.

aklim 05-04-2014 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuskyMan (Post 3324673)
What if the judge in the court system YOU promote has a financial interest in the proceedings before him/her? As in a certain judge which has investments with Vanguard Securities but when asked to recuse himself involving a case INVOLVING Vanguard Securities refused to do so? Can you say BIAS/CONFLICT OF INTEREST? I knew you could.........

How about the fact that many of those who have won in court AND those who LOST in court have rated the experience "unsatisfactory" as opposed to those who opt for Binding Arbitration which has a better than 90% SATISFACTION rating?

There is one MAJOR MAJOR problem with using binding arbitration versus going to court. You end up cutting out that $500 an hour ATTOURNER (twister, transfer agent???) out of his piece of the pie. What a drag for the BAR association members, you chose to take the high road rather than fill a lawyer's pockets full of coin.

The court system is run and operated by the GOVERNMENT versus Binding Arbitration which IS a PRIVATE ENTERPRISE operation. Again, Binding Arbitration enjoys a substantially higher user satisfaction rating over the Government run court system.

"People get the government they DESERVE."

- Will Rogers

Be careful what you ask for because you just might get it.
Simple question. Is that satisfaction perceived or factual?

aklim 05-04-2014 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3324676)
IOW, you have no response for the fact that the bible clearly states that Jesus directed his listeners to pay the lawful tax to the state. There is no context that changes the meaning. It's not a long passage and has no reference to the issue before or after:



Bundy was able to feed steers from birth to slaughter on forage that would have cost him about $27 if he'd paid the legal fee. Going with the rough estimate of $1,000 for an adult steer, it's not like Caesar was trying to starve poor ol' Bundy. He had PLENTY of room to render unto Caesar his due and still have plenty of energy left for he and family to give tribute to God.
Perhaps Bundy should ask for God to come an intervene.

Jorn 05-04-2014 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 3324581)
"Could it be that Liberal/Progressives don’t really trust anyone" except GOVERNMENT.
If that's the case, why did you ever call me a liberal or progressive?

cmac2012 05-04-2014 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3324691)
I'm not sure I get it. Clarification please. I am looking for work but what has legal migration got to do with just sneaking across the border? I'm hungry and looking for food. What has it got to do with be breaking into your refrigerator and helping myself vs trying to find a way to earn it?

I'm not very fluent on my ancestor's history. Perhaps you can shed some light on it? I would be very interested to know if they broke the laws of the land in search for work or not.
Legal, Schmegal. At some points you had ancestors that came to these shores from China or else you did yourself. Laws are always in flux. Did the Native Americans welcome Chinese immigrants, not to mention those from Europe? Didn't matter either way, they were gonna come. May as well try to stop water molecules from freezing and breaking apart mountains. The urge to avoid starvation will always be greater than the urge to obey the law.

cmac2012 05-04-2014 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 3324699)
Perhaps Bundy should ask for God to come an intervene.
Not surprising, you don't get it.

aklim 05-04-2014 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3324723)
Legal, Schmegal.

At some points you had ancestors that came to these shores from China or else you did yourself. Laws are always in flux. Did the Native Americans welcome Chinese immigrants, not to mention those from Europe? Didn't matter either way, they were gonna come. May as well try to stop water molecules from freezing and breaking apart mountains.

The urge to avoid starvation will always be greater than the urge to obey the law.
Is that the same attitude you have towards all things or is it only your pet causes? Can I say "Legal Schmegal" towards me shooting you, burning or drowning because I have a beef?

At some point, you have an ancestor that might have "married" a girl in her teens. At that time, it was legal. Laws are always in flux. Would you be ok with doing that same thing today? I mean, it could change and be legal for me to have sex with a 2 year old sometime in the future so what of it?

As long as the consequences are low, I agree.

aklim 05-04-2014 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3324724)
Not surprising, you don't get it.
Not surprising I don't agree with any tripe shoved in my face.

MS Fowler 05-04-2014 03:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idle (Post 3324642)
Nope.

That is your opinion. It is nowhere near to a fact.
It would be reassuring to see some evidence to that.

MS Fowler 05-04-2014 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elchivito (Post 3324666)
Conservative mythology. I know very few "progressives" or liberals who inherently trust government.
About half the time---when a repub ( liberal or conservative) is in the White House, Progressives have no trust in government. When a democrat inhabits the WH, there seems to be nothing but trust in the government.

The cynicism exhibited by liberal toward government disappears when a democrat is the President.

MS Fowler 05-04-2014 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 3324676)
IOW, you have no response for the fact that the bible clearly states that Jesus directed his listeners to pay the lawful tax to the state. There is no context that changes the meaning. It's not a long passage and has no reference to the issue before or after:



Bundy was able to feed steers from birth to slaughter on forage that would have cost him about $27 if he'd paid the legal fee. Going with the rough estimate of $1,000 for an adult steer, it's not like Caesar was trying to starve poor ol' Bundy. He had PLENTY of room to render unto Caesar his due and still have plenty of energy left for he and family to give tribute to God.
I was not arguing the point.


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