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  #451  
Old 04-20-2014, 09:13 PM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubyagee View Post
Honest day in court may not be available now due to their handling of the issue.
So you suspect they will bring criminal charges against him??
Otherwise, I think his day in court has already happened.

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  #452  
Old 04-20-2014, 09:24 PM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
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Interesting read...
Outlines the negative impacts caused by Bundy's trespass cattle.
Didn't realize that it has cost over half a million in matching grants as well as having generated a considerable number of complaints.
Not to mention him digging unauthorized reservoirs with a bulldozer.
http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/public_lands/grazing/pdfs/Northeast-Clark-County-Cattle-Trespass.pdf
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  #453  
Old 04-20-2014, 09:25 PM
A Talent for Obfuscation
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post

I'm baffled why our law-and-order crew here is so adamant about placing this violent and delusional criminal upon a pedestal...
No you're not. They see this whacko as some sort of wild west pioneer hero because this travesty is occurring west of the Mississippi, and a cow is involved.
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  #454  
Old 04-20-2014, 11:46 PM
Skid Row Joe's Avatar
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Federal agencies went out-of-control under the free reign of leftists Obama and Clinton - anything goes. Shoot to kill. This is no surprise what is happening.
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  #455  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:33 AM
Jim B.'s Avatar
Who's flying this thing ?
 
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
The town nearest me, a city of less than 10K people, has a fleet of battle clad Hummers, helicopters, enough para-military type SWAT gear to outfit 2 or 3 times as many cops as it actually employs. This is a disturbing trend for sure. It also has no direct bearing on the facts of the Bundy case.
<----- You are wrong; it absolutely *DOES* have "a direct bearing in the facts of this case".

When the police becomes so militarized, in the chain of command structure, its uniforms, equipment, weapons, tactical training, and "mission" - (the "war" on drugs, for example) and so similar to an army fighting an all-out war, WHY should you be particularly SURPRISED if it then ACTS like a regular army, fighting a war?
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  #456  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Federal agencies went out-of-control under the free reign of leftists Obama and Clinton - anything goes. Shoot to kill. This is no surprise what is happening.
No 8 years of Bush in between? Don't fool your self.
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  #457  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:51 AM
Jim B.'s Avatar
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Federal agencies went out-of-control under the free reign of leftists Obama and Clinton - anything goes. Shoot to kill. This is no surprise what is happening.
My recollection was that all this military equipment was actually FUNDED by the LEAA ("Law Enforcement Assistance Administration") that was given a budget allotment for all this SWAT (Special Weapons and Tactics") crap for local law enforcement.

If you worked for ANY branch of the Government, and knew anything about department budgets, you'd know that if you were given ANY amount of money in the budget for anything, SOP was that you'd better SPEND ALL of it;

Otherwise, you are running the risk of getting less or nothing - even if you needed it badly, the NEXT fiscal year.

***

And for Pete's sake, leave partisanship (laying the blame at Clinton's and Obama's feet PERSONALLY for this) out of this, won't you please? That has gotten really really tiresome and old.

My recollection is that the LEAA got started, and got tons of $$$ to dole out, when Ronald Reagan - the darling of the Republican Right - was President.

IMO the blame transcends partisan politics, no need to throw that kind of thing into the mix.


It's SOP that Government agencies want to keep getting more money for their budgets: whether it's needed or appropriate or fiscally sound is basically irrelevant to them.

I - a retired Govt. employee, personally know that for a fact. I witnessed it and actually heard the actual words spoken! The waste of tax dollars like that is unspeakable... I hope you agree.
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  #458  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:47 AM
cmac2012's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe View Post
Federal agencies went out-of-control under the free reign of leftists Obama and Clinton - anything goes. Shoot to kill. This is no surprise what is happening.
They don't have a right to self-defense? The populace is more and more heavily armed and often hostile to govt. edict. It could be argued that the degree of the former is roughly linked to the latter.
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  #459  
Old 04-21-2014, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
I'll grant that he has had his day in Court. But still, is there some room between the Sheriff saying, " You owe money", and the huge military force descending on the man's home?
It seems like a huge escalation, and for what? If its the money, then there are people who owe more money but aren't being threatened with military action. If its the desert tortoise--well, the feds killed more of them than anyone.
I just don't see the need for the overt, massive use of force. Hell, we didn't provide this level of support for our diplomatic mission in Benghazi!

Something stinks.
This makes sense.

All the gov had to do was wait for him to sell cattle and seize the proceeds. Repeat as necessary. Not unlike the IRS does with garnishment of wages. No helicopters, no giant enforcement presence with snipers and automatic weapons. That's just stupid.

I wonder how much the little militaristic law enforcement display cost the government. The helos cost upwards of $1,500/hour.
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  #460  
Old 04-21-2014, 09:04 AM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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"Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle."


I see this as a good thing: A golf course is a waste of good pasture space.....
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  #461  
Old 04-21-2014, 09:30 AM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
"Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle."


I see this as a good thing: A golf course is a waste of good pasture space.....
I bet you would not think so if it were yours and you were paying your rent.
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  #462  
Old 04-21-2014, 10:42 AM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
This makes sense.

All the gov had to do was wait for him to sell cattle and seize the proceeds. Repeat as necessary. Not unlike the IRS does with garnishment of wages. No helicopters, no giant enforcement presence with snipers and automatic weapons. That's just stupid.

I wonder how much the little militaristic law enforcement display cost the government. The helos cost upwards of $1,500/hour.
They have been waiting for years to see the cattle taken off the disputed lands...
Bundy was not decreasing the size of the herd.
That's why BLM came for the cattle.
Then Bundy escalated the issue into an armed resistance of the implementation of the court order.

I don't think anyone holds the opinion that things couldn't have been handled better, but slamming BLM for their reaction to armed resistance without acknowledging that a very large part of the responsibility lies with Bundy is not a well reasoned position.
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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
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  #463  
Old 04-21-2014, 10:44 AM
Inna-propriate-da-vida
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
"Mesquite golf course damaged by trespass cattle."


I see this as a good thing: A golf course is a waste of good pasture space.....
They pay far more in property tax than the ranchers for grazing fees... especially if the rancher isn't even paying the pittance which is due...
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On some nights I still believe that a car with the fuel gauge on empty can run about fifty more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. - HST

1983 300SD - 305000
1984 Toyota Landcruiser - 190000
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  #464  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:27 PM
waterboarding w/medmech
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I bet you would not think so if it were yours and you were paying your rent.
dear god, can't you see tongue in cheek humor?
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  #465  
Old 04-21-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
They have been waiting for years to see the cattle taken off the disputed lands...
Bundy was not decreasing the size of the herd.
That's why BLM came for the cattle.
Then Bundy escalated the issue into an armed resistance of the implementation of the court order.

I don't think anyone holds the opinion that things couldn't have been handled better, but slamming BLM for their reaction to armed resistance without acknowledging that a very large part of the responsibility lies with Bundy is not a well reasoned position.
I believe you missed the point. The government need not wait for Bundy to move his herd.
All they need to do is do what they already have made a practice of doing---taking bank accounts.
No need for armed military responses--just take his money to settle the debt.

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