Tony Stewart Runs over Competitor after altercation... Murder? Manslaughter? - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

link · #1 08-16-2014, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

This is directed to CMAC. I see Link beat me to posting.

Watch it again. He is clearly depicted hanging on the wing, then falling off with one arm up in the air. When Tony's car was veering right it looked like Ward's foot may have been under Tony's right rear tire dragging and causing the car to veer right, then he lost his grip and the tire sucked him under.

I just watched it four more times. He was clearly hanging on the wing. I don't see any other way to interpret the film.

The part where the wing deflected to the right before the car did was the telling detail, and then about 2 seconds later the camera shows him hanging on to the wing is further evidence that he was fatally moronic.

INSIDIOUS · #2 08-15-2014, 09:16 PM

We need forensic screen caps

t walgamuth · #3 08-16-2014, 11:03 AM

I read in the morning paper that Tony is sitting out another nascar race due to grief (do I accept that? I have my questions about it. I suspect Lawyers have advised him on how to conduct himself in this period of assessment by the law enforcement community). I really thought he would run last week. Of course this death is the first of this nature in racing ever that I know of.

Just very bizzare and unfortunate.

cmac2012 · #4 08-17-2014, 03:23 AM

Grief? More like he's got a cloud hanging over him. The kid was going to stand and gesture at him as he went by. When he saw that Stewart was coming at him, not by him like a sane person would do, he tried to jump back. There is no way he could have grabbed the wing at that speed. He was was being flipped ass over tea kettle. Stewart gunned the bleeping engine and cut the steering wheel hard. You actually can't see that in the tape? Look at the front wheels as he goes by Ward. TS is supposedly one of the best there is at making a sprint car go where he wants it to. The difference in the behavior of Stewart's car and car #45 just before him is striking.

But I will agree. It was bizarre and unfortunate.

t walgamuth · #5 08-17-2014, 07:50 AM

Well, the autopsy should provide information that would clear up how and what injuries were suffered by Ward, which in turn should provide more evidence of what actually happened.

If he was caught and dragged under the car as CMAC seems to believe there should be abrasions on him and or his suit.

If he jumped on Tony's car and hung there a second or so there should be evidence of that...namely abrasions on his helmet and upper body but not overall.

I know this. If I had been Tony I would have had my car going as slow as possible in the lowest point in the groove to avoid Ward. If I had been Ward I'd have stayed in my car. Neither of them used the best sound judgment in the encounter.

Ward clearly moved down the track as Tony's car approached in order to either make a big gesture at Tony or perhaps to punch him.

One paid the ultimate price and the other will no doubt pay a big price as well.

Since Tony did not do everything possible to avoid Ward he will no doubt pay big money in a settlement as having x% of responsibility in the matter.

JamesDean · #6 08-17-2014, 01:23 PM

When I watched that slowed down version it looked like to me that Ward stepped towards in the inside of the track twice. It looked like the other cars that blew by him were hugging the inside of the track to a degree. It looked like Stewart was taking a path more towards the outside of the track as he did in the previous lap when the initial incident occurred.

BAVBMW · #7 08-18-2014, 04:20 PM

I just see Ward falling to the ground and sliding across the track, no "flying", no "cartwheels", no "thrown", all of which I keep hearing used to described what the video shows.

I have no love for Stewart, nor have I any hate for him. Prior to this event and the subsequent media coverage, he was an unknown to me. I don't watch Nascar. I don't watch sprint cars. I do watch people. I do watch society. What I'm seeing now is a whole lot of people going on and on about an event, many claiming with absolute certainty what happened, often times in contrast with what the video shows. I find it fascinating. I'm not sure if we'll ever know everything about it. Stewart would be best to not talk too much about it, and Ward cannot. It is interesting to say the least.

MV

t walgamuth · #8 08-18-2014, 04:31 PM

One comment: In the original contact between Stewart's car and Ward's car...I believe that STewarts car was ahead of Ward's car. In that case it is the responsibility of the car which is behind to avoid the colision....namely Ward. Stewart was sliding up the track in the turn and it was Ward's duty to back off a tick to avoid contact.

That was a racing accident and similar moves probably happened 20 other times in that race without contact.

As for STewart's career being over? I doubt that. And as for the fans booing him?

Maybe the Ward fans will, but unless there is more clear evidence than I have seen so far his responsibility in this matter appears to be less than Ward's simply because Stewart was where he was supposed to be, in his car, and Ward was not.

As a racer I can tell you that if it were me in that car I would have been looking ahead where I was headed, toward the inside of the turn. Looking to the right on a winged sprint car will not give you much of a view at all.

aklim · #9 08-18-2014, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

As a racer I can tell you that if it were me in that car I would have been looking ahead where I was headed, toward the inside of the turn. Looking to the right on a winged sprint car will not give you much of a view at all.

I'm not a racer by any means but isn't it an expectation that the track be cleared when you are racing? I know that when autocrossing, if you are disabled, you get off the track yesterday.

cmac2012 · #10 08-18-2014, 05:09 PM

Tom, Tom, Tom. I keep hearing this 'look to the right' stuff. Ward was to the left of cars when they entered the turn, in terms of line of sight. No question about it. And until they went past him he would be primarily in front of the car in terms of line of sight.

Look at the slow-motion video. Stewart's rear end is fishtailing right, left then right. This was not the result of Ward's body doing anything to the car. Those cars have what, seven, 800 hp? Add to that the movement of the steering, front wheel that you can see which matches the fishtailing, Stewart threw some aggression into the mix.

We'll never know what Ward did as far as grabbing the car, or why, with any certainty. But looking at the first go-round, I see Stewart's front wheel clearly go in and go out, and the bulk of his car go hard to the right just before hitting the wheel. The guy has been around those cars for a long time. And he boasts about taking people out.

I don't think small-town fans are going to forget this.

BAVBMW · #11 08-19-2014, 11:18 AM

The thing is, as far as the court of public opinion goes, I think Stewart will be ok. So far, it seems like in every conversation I've been party to in which this incident is being discussed, "the public" is largely of the opinion that Ward was an idiot for walking out on to the track and attempting to confront Stewart's car. There is some debate about how much Stewart did or could have done differently, but it seems everyone agrees that Ward has the greatest share of the blame, as none of this would have happened if he hadn't gone out on to the track trying to pick a fight with a car.

MV

link · #12 08-19-2014, 11:53 AM

^It is difficult not to blame Ward, who appears not so much a victim but using shall we say very bad judgement.

The rules of this kind of racing need serious revision to suspend and fine people if they walk across the race track for any reason but to escape to the nearest side. The organizers should be sued into oblivion for having lax rules that permit this entirely foreseeable kind of event to happen.

If a case can be made that Stewart contributed to the fatality, he should be suspended or expelled from the sport, if not motor sports in general. Otherwise it will push the sport to become ever more a form of blood lust, where some openly want to see others killed.

Lastly, clearly they need more high resolution cameras.

cmac2012 · #13 08-19-2014, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAVBMW

The thing is, as far as the court of public opinion goes, I think Stewart will be ok. So far, it seems like in every conversation I've been party to in which this incident is being discussed, "the public" is largely of the opinion that Ward was an idiot for walking out on to the track and attempting to confront Stewart's car. There is some debate about how much Stewart did or could have done differently, but it seems everyone agrees that Ward has the greatest share of the blame, as none of this would have happened if he hadn't gone out on to the track trying to pick a fight with a car.

Yeah, and if he'd joined the seminary and took a vow of walking and nothing else to get around this never would have happened. Stating the obvious for the umpteenth thousandth time.

But who knows, you may be right on that one, the bolded part. Dale Earnhardt was widely regarded as one of the dirtiest drivers ever and yet when he died, from the nation's reaction you'd think Mother Theresa had been set upon by Osama bin Laden while she was taking food to orphans.

Stewart is one seriously weird mo-fo IMO. Just obnoxious to everybody. Makes fun of sportscasters, etc. At the end of this vid regarding his helmet thowing incident was a weird exchange with a sportscaster ("I don't give a crap"):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwc8obMmv7o

His helmet toss was not unlike Ward's attempt to show displeasure. Yes, Ward was on the track but dirt is slower than NASCAR under a yellow.

aklim · #14 08-19-2014, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

But who knows, you may be right on that one, the bolded part. Dale Earnhardt was widely regarded as one of the dirtiest drivers ever and yet when he died, from the nation's reaction you'd think Mother Theresa had been set upon by Osama bin Laden while she was taking food to orphans.

Stewart is one seriously weird mo-fo IMO. Just obnoxious to everybody. Makes fun of sportscasters, etc. At the end of this vid regarding his helmet thowing incident was a weird exchange with a sportscaster ("I don't give a crap"):

His helmet toss was not unlike Ward's attempt to show displeasure. Yes, Ward was on the track but dirt is slower than NASCAR under a yellow.

Winner quite often get forgiven for much. Still, I'd rank Dale higher than Bin ladin or MT. If I had to choose between the 3, Dale would come first.

Point being what? That we should hate him and try find a justification for conviction before any ruling is made because he is a jerk? You keep mentioning his antics like it has bearing.

Was the helmet tossed at himself? Ward did something dangerous which endangered other drivers. Thankfully, it is only him that died instead of someone else avoiding him.

BAVBMW · #15 08-19-2014, 04:52 PM

I think I already mentioned that I'm unfamiliar with either Tony Stewart or Kevin Ward, personally and professionally. I have no knowledge of their prior actions, attitudes, or activities. Tony Stewart might be a tremendous jerk for all I know. Or he might be a great guy. Never met him, never heard anything about him, the most I've ever seen of him is the pass of Kevin Ward's car, and then, of course the hitting of Kevin Ward.

Of Kevin Ward, I know just about the same. The difference being, in just that short video, I have seen Kevin Ward aggressively advance towards others, while making various gestures. And he did this in the middle of an active race track. Based solely on this evidence, I'd tend to come to the conclusion that Kevin Ward is:

A) Stupid (wandering into traffic)

and

B) Either aggressive, has problems with his temper, or his anger management skills.

Had Tony not hit Kevin, or better yet, if the video had stopped after the blue and white car went by, and someone had asked me my thoughts on what happened, I'd feel perfectly fine describing Kevin as some sort of idiot with a temper who wandered into traffic to pick fights with cars. But now, since he seems to have succeeded in his effort to attack someone in a moving vehicle (whatever his reasons were), am I supposed to change my opinion? Am I just supposed to side with him because he lost? He picked a fight. He was the aggressor.

He brought a Nomex suit to a car fight.

I'm not surprised at the outcome.

MV