Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-29-2015, 05:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,450
Losin' my cool!

Well, the old heat-pump in my parent's Virginia Beach home died this spring.
The house is a 2800 square-foot brick rambler, built in 1964. The system has a 4-ton Goodman heat-pump, combined with a Luxaire oil furnace for back-up heat, which my parents had installed in 1987.
The furnace is located in the garage, while the inside heat-exchanger for the heat-pump is located in the main air-duct, in the crawlspace under the house.
The furnace is a somewhat thirsty beast, but still works fine.
So a representative of the local oil company that has performed some of the routine service on this unit over the years stopped by yesterday.
Here is what he had to say -
Government mandates now require minimum 14 seer for a new heat-pump.
The 14 seer heat-exchanger is double the size of the old one and will not fit in the crawlspace, or under my 65" tall oil furnace. So I need a new 45" tall furnace, which is only being manufactured by a company which I've never heard of - Thermo-Pride. The new heat-pump is also a Thermo-Pride.
Total estimate, including removal of my old heat-exchanger from the crawlspace, replacing all the air-return ducting in the attic, and cementing a city-mandated 4" steel furnace-guard pipe in the garage floor, is $15,450, plus $985 if an inspection reveals the chimney needs a liner.
I would so appreciate some thoughts or advice from someone who's been through this recently, or is familiar with current HVAC equipment?

Meanwhile, I've just finished spending two days running a 20-amp circuit to power a 12,000 btu window airconditioner in the rec-room, which also somewhat cools the kitchen, and installed a new 5000 btu LG window unit 2 months ago in my bedroom. Draw on the small unit is just over 500-watts so no problems so far with the wiring or breaker. As summer continues, I'll see how this setup works out. I may decide later to install a couple more 5000 btu LG units in the other bedroom and the kitchen. Those areas are on separate circuits from the two current AC units.
Having just finished a $10,000 rehab on a rental property, which I'm still paying-off, I think I might festoon this entire house with window-units before I have to shell-out over $15 K !
Thanks in advance.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-29-2015, 06:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 709
Did you PM our moderator Vstech? He's the HVAC expert.
__________________
'89 260e (212K Mi.), '92 400e (208K Mi.), '92 400e (not a misprint) (146K Mi.), '95 C220, '81 240D--Sold
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-29-2015, 08:21 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: CT
Posts: 260
There is a special section for space constrained units which allows a seer of 12
I would look up the regulations before I signed on for a new unit based on what a service guy says....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-29-2015, 08:52 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by PARSHOOT1 View Post
Did you PM our moderator Vstech? He's the HVAC expert.
Didn't know that. Thanks.

Happy Motoring, Mark
__________________
DrDKW
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-29-2015, 10:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by my83300cd View Post
There is a special section for space constrained units which allows a seer of 12
I would look up the regulations before I signed on for a new unit based on what a service guy says....
I also asked about the option of installing a straight heat-pump system, and doing away with the oil furnace entirely. He said that would need replacing all the ductwork under the house and the city would require I remove and dispose of the underground oil-tank.

I do plan to get as many other opinions as possible.

I did find mention of that 'space constrained' provision on a DOE site. But no explanation of how to determine if my situation would qualify.

On a realtor website I read that the cost of the new 14-seer equipment was expected to be 55 - 65% higher, not including any major structural modifications to the residence needed to fit the much larger components.

Sadly, one if my rentals may also be needing a new heat-pump in the next year or so! No oil or gas in that neighborhood. It's time to think about electric baseboards and window units there.

Meanwhile, since about 3pm when I got the new wiring finished, the big window AC in the rec-room has manage to cool down the back part of the house from 85F to 75F.
The big test will be tomorrow, when the forecast is for the mid 90s, but I'll be able to turn on the big AC in the morning.

Happy Motoring, Mark
__________________
DrDKW
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-29-2015, 10:18 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 35,767
I'd find someone to fix the existing system.
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-29-2015, 11:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I'd find someone to fix the existing system.
I'd like to, but the system is 28 years old, the condenser-coil has cracked, it's pan has rusted through, and it's aluminum fins have been badly corroded by salt-air.
To add insult to whatever, for 15K+, the estimator said "Don't expect the new heat-pump to last much more than about 10 years. I replied "In 10 years, they'll probably require all heat-AC systems to be solar powered and take up all the space in my garage!".He said " Don't say that too loud".
Wonder when DOE will get around to outlawing window ACs.

Happy Motoring, Mark
__________________
DrDKW
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-30-2015, 12:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,500
Can you dig out the crawl space and have a "bulge" in the duct for the heat exchanger? Or have the exchanger on the intake side of the furnace? Or mod the ductwork in the garage leading to the crawlspace to accept it?

Install it yourself, quietly and illegally, without dealing with city crap. It's only illegal if someone knows about it, and it's primarily an indoor job
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-30-2015, 01:02 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Can you dig out the crawl space and have a "bulge" in the duct for the heat exchanger? Or have the exchanger on the intake side of the furnace? Or mod the ductwork in the garage leading to the crawlspace to accept it?

Install it yourself, quietly and illegally, without dealing with city crap. It's only illegal if someone knows about it, and it's primarily an indoor job
There's already a big 'bulge' where the 1987 heat-exchanger is.
A 14 seer replacement won't fit the existing openings into the crawlspace. I'd have to rip out the dining-room floor to get one in there. The existing 65" tall furnace is right against the crawlspace wall. Because it's located in a garage, it's already 2 feet up on a cinder-block pedestal. Putting the 14 seer exchanger under it would put the top half of the furnace in the attic, leading to all sorts of issues with return-ducting, furnace exhaust, and code requirements.

This is a down-flow furnace. Putting the AC/heat-pump heat-exchanger upstream of the furnace isn't done because in AC-mode, the air-flow carries condensation which will accelerate corrosion of the furnace heat-exchanger.

As much as I'm amazed at what I can still do, like today's wiring adventure to get reliable power to the big window AC (which may have been illegal!) I've reached the age where wrestling large, heavy HVAC components isn't a good idea anymore.
Getting very sleepy now.....

Happy Motoring, Mark
__________________
DrDKW

Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 07-30-2015 at 01:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-30-2015, 07:41 AM
oldsinner111's Avatar
once a happy man
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: bristol,tn
Posts: 5,768
get at least a 16 seer,goodman is a good cheap brand.I repaired mine from watching videos.When compressor goes,I will repair myself,and have a guy charge the system.
You can buy parts,and systems cheap online.
__________________
A nice nuclear war sounds nice,reduce man's population 90% evenly around the planet
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-30-2015, 10:54 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldsinner111 View Post
get at least a 16 seer,goodman is a good cheap brand.I repaired mine from watching videos.When compressor goes,I will repair myself,and have a guy charge the system.
You can buy parts,and systems cheap online.
I have no complaint with my 28 year-old Goodman, even though Consumer Reports ranked them dead-last when they rated AC/heat-pumps a few years ago - ironically a few months AFTER I had a new Goodman heat-pump installed at the other rental unit! My compressor is fine. It's the outside coil that's failed.
I am going to shop around for more estimates, and online. The problem with shopping around is that possibly no one makes a high-efficiency heat-pump/oil-furnace combination that fits in the space I have.
The immediate plan is to try and keep this house comfortable as long as possible, without a heat-pump, so my back isn't to the wall.
Got up at 5 AM and turned on the 12K window unit in the rec-room, then went back to bed. Just got up a half hour ago and it's 72F in here and maybe 74F in the adjoining kitchen. Very acceptable. Yesterday, this time, it was 84F at this end of the house.

Happy Motoring, Mark
__________________
DrDKW

Last edited by Mark DiSilvestro; 07-30-2015 at 11:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-31-2015, 08:43 AM
PhantomCadillac's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Umatilla, Florida
Posts: 233
Goggle european air conditioners . We installed one with a splitter for two large rooms.
It saves money because you only run them when needed. They cool a room down fast and are cheaper to run the regular A/C and I would guess window units.
Worth taking a look at they also heat...well at least in Florida!
__________________
Moss Gate Bed & Breakfast
1985 300 TD GG done in by a red light runner
1984 300 CD Sold
2008 Titian
2000 Cadillac SLS
1966 FLH Sold
2003 Harley Ultra

Last edited by PhantomCadillac; 07-31-2015 at 02:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-31-2015, 10:39 AM
Simpler=Better's Avatar
Ham Shanker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 2,544
If you want to go cheap call up your local industrial cooler repair guys.They should know a thing or two about retrofitting old units. Explain that you're not the usual crazy homeowner and they might listen to you long enough to give some feedback.


Otherwise I'd bite the bullet and go to just a heat exchanger. Virginia doesn't get too cold, right?
__________________
$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges
$110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges
No merc at the moment
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-31-2015, 02:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Alexandria, Virginia
Posts: 5,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomCadillac View Post
Goggle european air conditioners . We installed one with a splitter for two large rooms.
It saves money because you only run them when needed. They cool a room down fast and are cheaper to run the regular A/C and I would guess window units.
Worth taking a look at they also heat...well at least in Florida!
Are these the split systems where the inside unit mounts to the wall up near the ceiling? I've seen ones made by Mitsubishi at Home Depot.
What is the total btu of your system? How much did it cost?
If I could cool the rec-room AND living room, maybe I could use the furnace fan to distribute that cool air throughout the house.
Meanwhile, I have an 8 year-old 24,000 btu LG through-the-wall airconditioner we removed from a rental after the fan motor quit. It also heats, but it's 240 volts.
If I can get a new motor, I'm wondering what I might be able to do with that.

Happy Motoring, Mark

__________________
DrDKW
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page