Ah, the image of a bird roasting in the oven with the stuffing filling the cavity is an image we got from Norman Rockwell, but not from any properly roasted turkey.

It all has to do to with Mass and Moisture. Roasting a turkey is not rocket science, it's actually one of the easiest "big production" meals to do. The ultimate goal is a properly cooked turkey (165 degrees internal temp according to the FDA) without overcooking and ending up with dry meat. When you add stuffing to the body cavitiy, you are adding mass, which means a longer cooking time for mr bird, which increases the "dryness" result. Traditional stuffing is also a "turkey juice" sponge, so during that longer cooking time, the stuffing gets moist from the internal moisture that should have been in the meat. Cook the stuffing in a casserole dish or stovetop and, if you have to, spoon it into the bird for the "Kodak Moment."

Also . . NO BASTING! Put that bulb syringe away for artificial insemination, you don't need it for the turkey. Turkey skin is waterproof, so you're not adding flavor to the meat, but you are letting heat out of the oven which will increase cooking time, which will result in dryer meat. Starting out with a high cooking temp to brown the outside of the breast will color and crisp up the skin and seal in the moisture, then lowering the oven temp will finish the internals. Don't be a baster.

It's that time of year.

Bump

Thanks for the bump!

Kuan, will you be treating us to a new recipe this year?? Pleaasssee?????

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Current:
2014 VW Tiguan SEL 4Motion 43,000 miles.

2016 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport (wife's).

Past:
2006 Jetta TDI 135,970 miles. Sold Nov. '13.
1995 E-320 Special Edition. 220,200 miles. Sold Sept. '07.
1987 190-E 16 valve. 153,000 miles. Sold Feb. '06.
1980 300-D 225,000 miles. Donated to the National Kidney Foundation.
1980 240-D manual, 297,500 miles. Totaled by inattentive driver.

I've been brining for years. The authority on this subject is Cooks Illustrated magazine - Google their website for all the details of the process. The magazine is great if you are really into cooking.

Important points about brining, some of which have already been made in this thread:

-Too long or too strong makes for a very salty bird. Check the website for the correct strengths and times (they have numbers for short strong brines, and longer weaker ones to accomodate your timing needs). Don't remember them off the top off my head, but I'll look it up and post them if anyone's interested.
-Keep it covered and cold; blue-ice packs work well if you don't have adequate refrigeration. You can buy a proper-sized plastic tub with a good cover at WalMart for about 2 bucks. I wouldn't use any metal other than stainless steel due to the corrosive properties of salt water and the possibility of leaching undesirable metals such as aluminum into your solution. This is a good time to be scrupulously clean!
-Even with proper strength and timing, the pan drippings are usually too salty to use. You can roast some (cheap!) turkey legs the weekend before and make a dandy turkey stock out of that for gravy.
-Brining works by denaturing the cell walls, preventing them from rupturing and hence losing water, during the cooking process. A brined bird weighs something like 10-15% more than an equivalent unbrined bird due to better retention of water.
-A brined bird is diffucult to brown, often coming out with a splotchy gray-brown color. Basting with melted butter helps somewhat with browning, but as stated before does little else for the bird. The best way to achieve good browning is to brine the day before, and set the bird uncovered on a rack in the fridge overnight to dry out the skin. This makes a big difference, and a nicely browned bird results.
-The benefit of adding other flavors to the brining solution is minimal - with the exception of sugar, they really impart little to the bird. The herb and butter rub (especially under the skin), and aromatic veggies such as onion and celery with herbs in the cavity will be by far the dominant method of getting flavor into the bird.
-Some sugar in the brining solution for a chicken works well; the sugar taste is noticeably out of place in a turkey if you're going for the classic taste most folks expect.
-Ideal cooking temps are 160F for the breast, and 175-180 for the dark meat. Salmonella is killed after a few minutes at 160, but much over that will just result in a dry breast. Brining gives you a little more leeway - I've accidently taken a breast up to 170 without undo drying, but 160 will give you an incredibly juicy breast. You will not appreciate dark meat at 160-165 however, it should be higher. The way to achieve these disparate temperatures is to start the bird breast side down to concentrate heat on the thighs and legs, then flipping the bird halfway through cooking to brown the breast side. This method is also detailed by Cooks Illustrated. I haven't dropped a bird yet - don't be shy. Also, a shallow roasting pan works better than a deep one, allowing hot dry oven air to circulate around the bird better. With too deep a pan, steaming instead of roasting becomes more predominant.
-Stuffing the bird usually requires extended cooking times that will overcook the breast meat. If you really still want to do it, you can preheat the stuffing in the microwave before stuffing the bird so it is up to proper temp at the same time the rest of the bird is. I cook my stuffing separate, using the stock I previously made from turkey legs.
-Let the bird rest at least 20 min after removing from the oven. This allows the reabsorption of juices into the meat. Don't worry, it'll stay plenty hot, in fact the temperature will contimue to rise after you've taken it from the oven for a good 10 minutes. If you carve it without the resting, the juice just spills out all over your cutting board. This is important for nearly any cut of meat.

If you've read this far, you may be interested enough to try it. You won't regret it, it's really worth the little extra effort!

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2002 E320 4-Matic
2008 Subaru Outback
2009 Subaru Forester

Anybody ever use an oven bag?

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-Marty

1986 300E 220,000 miles+ transmission impossible
(Now waiting under a bridge in order to become one)

Reading your M103 duty cycle:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831799-post13.html
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/831807-post14.html

Uh oh...

Old post resurrection has begun

I've brined the bird the last 4-5 T'day and Christmas. Use an ice chest to get the bird done right. Large group so bird is in the 24-30lb range. With that many folk around, I've doing the bird on the gas Weber. This frees up the oven for the other goodies. Not sure if anyone covered this, but DO NOT stuff the bird if you're doing it on the BBQ. I've used a rack and pan to catch the dripping for gravy and also tried to do the rotisserie route. With large bird, balancing the rod is a bid deal. Dressing is made in the oven using the casserole method. By far the best bird imaginable.

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KyGuy
'04 E500 Brilliant Silver/Ash (50K)
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'70 6.3 Gold/Tobacco (128K) (sold and now in Germany)
'94 E420 Silver/Blue (80K) - Sold
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'66 300SE Coupe (owned 2002-2003)

my family has always brined the turkey! Its the only way I like it.

What's with the kosher salt? I look at kosher salt and regular sea salt, and I can't see any difference. Can anyone explain the difference to me? All salt comes from the sea. Why should I spend extra money on kosher salt when sea salt is the same?

Peter

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So where does kosher salt come from? I am a pretty good cook, and my spice cabinet is fairly well stocked. I have NOUC MAM, almost every vinegar, chinese chili paste, oyster sauce, mustard sead oil, wasabe, and the list goes on, but alas I have no kosher salt. I only have NON IODIZED sea salt. I use cast iron skillets, French enamaled cast iron dutch ovens, Chinese woks, and of course my All-Clad. I cook foods from many cultures, and now I am wondering how is this possible without kosher salt. Help.

Peter

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Kosher salt is made from evaporated brine. It has no additives or iodine. It is popular with cooks because it's course texture makes it easy to pinch and sprinkle and is less "salty" because of it's size, so that it's hard to over-salt foods, and the coarse texture makes it adhere to meats before cooking. To use kosher salt in any recipie that is configured for table salt, you double the amount. It's also known for it's fast dissolving in liquid, so the effect on taste can be immediately checked.

Table salt, usually iodized, is great for baking where the fine grained crystals are easily measured.

MTI,

Your answer would be a very credible answer on the NPR program " wait, wait, don't tell me". Many people would guess it as the right answer, but it is the wrong answer.

I love this new OD, because members like medmec have no clue as to what we are debating. We are so far out of their narrow band width.

Peter

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My wife salted the turkey one year. I couldn't eat it, too salty. Her ex-husband taught her this, and he was a Marine Corps mess hall SSGT.

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Regards

Warren

Currently 1965 220Sb, 2002 FORD Crown Vic Police Interceptor

Had 1965 220SEb, 1967 230S, 280SE 4.5, 300SE (W126), 420SEL

ENTER > = (HP RPN)

Not part of the in-crowd since 1952.

TK,

I just realized your problem. You are in Florida. I visited Florida a few years ago, and enjoyed my visit, but missed the diversity of California. If you take out all the insane and weird people, California is probably the greatest state in the union. My new son in law came out here from Florida a few years ago. We took him on a camping trip with my daughter down to Mark Twain country. We camped in Sonora in shorts. The next day we took him to the Yosemite Valley where he was awe struck by the beauty of the water falls and couldn't believe that people climbed half way up half dome and sunk petons and slept on the side of a cliff thousands of feet above ground. The next day we drove through heavy snow in the pass and spent the afternoon in shorts in a desert ghost town called Boddy. You need to come out here and experience the diversity of Ca. You can go to Disney World and experience corporate cuisine or come to the Bay Area and taste real food from all over the world at regular restaurants.

Peter

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Warren,

Do you listen to Mike Cross or any other Appelachian music? Sorry about the spelling.

Peter

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