There is a GOD - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

mikemover · #31 03-15-2003, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4NDELIT
While I agree with you guys that DL may be asking for a little criticizm, I think you guys are taking this way too far. I think everyone should respect each other's beliefs, religious or otherwise (that includes athiesm bill). If you don't agree with someone, tell them, but don't mock them for what they believe, or what they say (I've seen many arguments based on mere spelling or punctuation errors). If you guys feel seriously opposed to the notion of god, make another one of those "is there a god" threads, and you can bash God, Christianity, Jesus, and anything else you want. As far as something like giving God credit for a girl's life being saved, I think arguing about it just shows how little concern you had for the girl. I am happy that she is home with her family, and I personally think God had something to do with it. If you ask how god could take her away in the first place, read the book of Job. I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I can't just stand and let DL get attacked like this.

I DO NOT agree.

Although I'm very glad that the girl has been found alive and brought home safely, and I hope she suffers no permanant mental/emotional issues from her ordeal, I'm sometimes amused, and sometimes downright irritated, at the way so many people mindlessly and automatically assume and declare divine intervention in such cases. There is no cause-and-effect correlation there. Sorry, but "I just believe" doesn't cut it for me. Prove it. I have faith...In facts.

I also wonder why no one has brought up this part of the issue: When you have 5 very young children living in your nice large home, is it not pretty irresponsible and reckless to bring vagrants and drifters into your home to do handiwork/repairs/whatever? Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but that seems like bad judgment on the part of the parents, and I think it was begging for trouble.

Mike

4NDELIT · #32 03-15-2003, 04:42 PM

I would tell you to read the book of Job in the Bible for evidence of something like this where god tests faith through such trials, but you probably wouldn't take the bible as fact. As far as the parents irresponsibility, I guess it is similar to the case of Daniel Van Dam, but I wouldn't know because I am not a parent myself.

mikemover · #33 03-15-2003, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4NDELIT
I would tell you to read the book of Job in the Bible for evidence of something like this where god tests faith through such trials, but you probably wouldn't take the bible as fact.

My father was a pastor, and my parents owned and operated a Christian pre-school....I've been there, done that.

Mike

4NDELIT · #34 03-15-2003, 04:50 PM

then you know what I'm talking about. Job had everything he owned taken away from him, and the Lord gave it back after he stayed faithfull. I'm sure that this is what Mr. Smart felt like too. When he lost his daughter, he did not give up faith, but he persisted in it untill she was safely returned. I can see the corellation between these two stories, but that is because I believe the Bible to be fact. Considering your father was a pastor, I am assuming you are familiar with the bible, but that you reject it as being un-true, so you may not make the connection I do.

mikemover · #35 03-15-2003, 05:12 PM

I always avoid most debate concerning religion, because logic and facts always quickly exit the discussion. Blind faith and productive debate do not mix well.

There are countless historical accuracies in the Bible. There also are many discrepancies (according to the timeline of the bible, our planet and everything on it and around it is only approx. 3,000 years old, give or take a few centuries--This is indisputably not true), and also lots of symbolism and story-telling. It's often difficult to determine which of these the authors meant a particular segment to be interpreted as. Much of it is often taken out-of-context, and over- or under- analyzed. It's not really the Bible I have a problem with. It's many of its READERS that I take issue with. A favorite bumper sticker that I see from time to time is: "Jesus, save me from your followers". That pretty much sums up my outlook on religion.

Mike

4NDELIT · #36 03-15-2003, 05:16 PM

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to force my ideas or religion on you. I am merely trying to tell you that I have chosen my reaction to this incident based on my religion. Our difference in reactions probably has something to do with our beliefs. Again, I am not trying to jam something down your throat, I am trying to explain my reaction.

mikemover · #37 03-15-2003, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4NDELIT
Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to force my ideas or religion on you. I am merely trying to tell you that I have chosen my reaction to this incident based on my religion. Our difference in reactions probably has something to do with our beliefs. Again, I am not trying to jam something down your throat, I am trying to explain my reaction.

Message received and understood.

Mike

BENZ-LGB · #38 03-15-2003, 06:44 PM

Like everyone else, I am very happy that ES was found alive and well. If God brought her back safe and sound, that's great. But what about all the little boys and girls who never come back and whose tangled, murdered and abused bodies is all that their parents will ever see of them. Where was God in those cases? Are the boys and girls who never return any less deserving of God's love.

Maybe thier parents didn't pray hard enough? Maybe their parents lacked faith? Maybe thier parents did not contrubute enough money to their churches?

I don't mean to offend anyone--honestly.

I am just trying to make sense of a God that allows ES's safe return while at the same time allowing little Samantha Runyon and Danielle VanDam to be kidnapped, raped and then murdered.

If anyone has an answer, other than the usual "well, you've got to have faith and believe" or the equally unsatisfying "well, that's God's plan and no one can figure out God's plan..." I'd love to hear it.

Perhaps then I will change my mind about divine intervention.

BENZ-LGB · #39 03-15-2003, 07:00 PM

...is a very good teaching example. In Job, God and Satan essentially make a bet about how Job, a decent, God-loving man, will react to a number increasingly harsh "misfortunes."

God sort of loses the bet, because Job finally questions God.

Job's family is wiped out, his wife and children killed. At the end, Job gets a new family, but what about it his old family? When all is said and done, they are still dead, aren't they?

Seems to me that a God who is willing to bet on a good man's reaction to misfortune is a rather capricious god.

Diesel-lover and 4ndelit,no offense meant, just questions that need answers.

84300DT · #40 03-15-2003, 07:35 PM

"I also wonder why no one has brought up this part of the issue: When you have 5 very young children living in your nice large home, is it not pretty irresponsible and reckless to bring vagrants and drifters into your home to do handiwork/repairs/whatever? Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but that seems like bad judgment on the part of the parents, and I think it was begging for trouble. "

mike you have brought up a good point - security

i think it starts at home. the authorities are usually reactors ie.
when there is a fire they respond and try to put out the fire..
but we at home have more control over our own situation than they do. so mind your own space and be aware at all times. there are bad people out there.

4NDELIT · #41 03-15-2003, 08:07 PM

I'll e-mail you something I recieved from a friend... kinda describes why some things like this happen.

Diesel-Lover · #42 03-16-2003, 12:00 AM

I must say it is never questioned when one says
"God damn it"
But as soon as one says Thank God
All hell breaks loose! Logically of-course.

Just imagine the odds against ES
kidnapped by an unrelated person
kidnapped by force in the middle of the night
missing for 9 months
then to be found within a few miles of the house

Let me use a quote from a movie here!
Believe in the force!

Seriously though, scientifically there are as many things that have not been divined as there are inaccuracies in the divine writings or belief systems eh.

If one were to distill some basic rules that make society function what would they be? I would guess they would resemble basic religious edicts/commandments.

Forget all this stuff and have a brew to celebrate St. Patrick's day this Monday. Don't forget to wear something green eh.

Cheers

Diesel-Lover · #43 03-16-2003, 12:33 AM

Got a deal there Spock
Say there is an ole novel Time Line by Michael Creighton (sp)
Would like to hear your reaction to it! (Assuming you like fiction)