quote:
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Originally posted by GermanStar
These guys are starting to sound like voices in a chorus, aren't they? Is there some point where you find them credible? How many does it take? 20? 50? 100? Or is it just the message?
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When they stop doing it for profit.--MedMech
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A right winger who hates the profit motive! Amazing! I'm sure he's scandalized about Halliburton profitting from the Iraq war as well.

Joe B.

Posted by Botnst: Name the last time a ground breaking book by a libertarian or conservative was hawked on 60 Minutes.

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I can't say for certain, because it's been a long time, but didn't they do a thing on Bernard Goldberg's book alleging a left-wing bias in the press? I know he was all over the airwaves pushing the book, so whether 60 Minutes did it or not I cannot say for sure, but I suspect that they may have.

Besides, is "hawking" a book the point of their reports? In the interview, Zinni said things--things that can either be challenged factually, or not. So far, no one here has offered one scrap of factual refutation for what he said. They impugne his motives because they cannot stay in the ring with him in terms of argumentation. Ditto Paul O'Neill. Ditto Richard Clarke. Ditto Bob Woodward. They all wrote books; they all made money; that does not mean that they are all wrong.

Joe B.

I think GW would probably hire Woodward as his biographer......

Posted by GermanStar: I think GW would probably hire Woodward as his biographer......

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Probably true. Woodward's first Bush book was fawningly flattering. And given Bush's one book limit, he probably hasn't read the second.

Joe B.

Well, I can name you about a dozen hawked on Fox.

Hmmm.....Seems like some people are against Haliburtan making a profit...and saying that they took the US for a ride....

Just one question:

How much would you charge, per gallon, to guarantee delivery of an explosive product into the midst of a warzone?

__________________
1998 W202 C230 - The money pit of late.
1984 W126 300SD (356,800 miles) Gone to the wrenchapart
1984 W123 300D Gone to the wrenchapart
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 (sold but not forgotten)
1986 Buick Grand National 3.8l Turbo (86k miles)
1966 Glassic Model 'A' Replica http://www.glassicannex.org

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Posted by Fuzzball:
How much would you charge, per gallon, to guarantee delivery of an explosive product into the midst of a warzone?

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Wouldn't have to make that decision--wouldn't have fought the war in the first place. And if I did, I would expect to earn the contract through competitive bidding, not through connections in the White House.

Joe B.

Nice dodge of the question....now...really, you are Joe B. Oil and gas and you want to bid on the delivery of an explosive product into the midst of a warzone and guarantee delivery. How much are you going to charge for this service.

Just how much should we allow this company to charge for this service???????

I knew I should have stuck to the Diesel forum and left the politics to others....I can never seem to get a direct answer to a direct question from people.....wonder why they are so afraid to try to answer....hmmmmm

oh....and since you broached the subject with your reply....does that mean that you believe it was wrong to fire longterm government employees and make up charges of malfeasense only to give the job to your hollywierd buddies??? Is that the kind of competative bidding you're talking about.....???? Sounded like bidding hard working people goodbye to me.....then adding injury to insult by taking them to court...where they won with less than one hours deliberation because everyone knew that the entire issue was made up. Is that the competative bidding process you're referring to?

__________________
1998 W202 C230 - The money pit of late.
1984 W126 300SD (356,800 miles) Gone to the wrenchapart
1984 W123 300D Gone to the wrenchapart
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 (sold but not forgotten)
1986 Buick Grand National 3.8l Turbo (86k miles)
1966 Glassic Model 'A' Replica http://www.glassicannex.org

http://banners.wunderground.com/weat...Round_Rock.gif

Posted by Fuzzball: Nice dodge of the question....now...really, you are Joe B. Oil and gas and you want to bid on the delivery of an explosive product into the midst of a warzone and guarantee delivery. How much are you going to charge for this service.

Just how much should we allow this company to charge for this service???????

I knew I should have stuck to the Diesel forum and left the politics to others....I can never seem to get a direct answer to a direct question from people.....wonder why they are so afraid to try to answer....hmmmmm

oh....and since you broached the subject with your reply....does that mean that you believe it was wrong to fire longterm government employees and make up charges of malfeasense only to give the job to your hollywierd buddies??? Is that the kind of competative bidding you're talking about.....???? Sounded like bidding hard working people goodbye to me.....then adding injury to insult by taking them to court...where they won with less than one hours deliberation because everyone knew that the entire issue was made up. Is that the competative bidding process you're referring to?

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The short answer to your question is that I am not in the oil transport business, thus I have no idea what would be a fair charge. But the Office of Management and Budget does, and it cited Halliburton for overcharging. As did the Pentagon on Halliburton's charging for GI meals that it did not serve.

As for Travelgate--Clinton has been out of office for three years. Stick to the thread, which is all about Bush and the war in Iraq.

Joe B.

That's rich, comparing the firing of those travel office bozos to a muti-billion dollar no bid contract. You guys will go to any length to justify these people.

OK, Fuzzball. What is the appropriate price for delivering an explosive product into the midst of a warzone and guaranteeing delivery? The tone of your question implies that you have looked into this issue and determined that Halliburton's price was OK, despite the lack of any competition. Enlighten us, please.

There's no dispute about the fact that Halliburton has (and still probably continues to) grossly overcharge the government. That's nothing new in government procurement. What should have all of us up in arms is the conflict of interest presented when the VP, who pushed to invade Iraq, and the father of the current President, who also pushed to invade Iraq, both stand to profit from Halliburton being awarded almost exclusive, non-competitive bid access to make billions of dollars to rebuild Iraq after (during) this war. Any logical thinker must realize how wrong that whole situation is.

Dick Cheney may have divested of his Halliburton stock options, but I'm willing to bet that they're held in trust until he is no longer VP and that he will be revested at a fat profit. Carlyle Group (Bush, Sr.) is a major shareholder in Halliburton. If Bill Clinton had anywhere close to that kind of arrangement going on the neo-cons would have stormed the White House!

__________________
1991 560SEL (254K miles)
1980 Lincoln Mark VI - Givenchy
1979 Lincoln Mark V Collector's Series
1979 Lincoln Town Car Collector's Series
1979 Ford "Effie" Pickup (in gradual transformation to a show/street truck)
1969 Lincoln Mark III (waiting for "Overhaulin" to call)
1989 Lincoln Towncar
2001 Lexus GS300 (spousal unit's daily driver)

I disagree, Clinton LOST money in a land deal and the republicans spent $40 Million of our dollars finding out he did nothing wrong. Where's the outrage over Cheney and Halliburton? I guess when you control all 3 branches of government conflict of interest or the appearance of conflict of interest is OK. Cheney and Scalia anyone?

Ah..so in this case you are going to trust the Bush administration is telling you the truth, because it goes your way.....ok.....I get it....you pass judgement on something you freely admit you are ignorant about. That speaks volumes to me...thank you very much for admitting that publicly.

As for you admonition to stay on topic, it doesn't matter how long boy clinton has been out of office, I'm not passing judgement on him, I'm passing judgement on your view of this issue and comparing it to what I bet you were pooh pooing just a few short years ago......in other words, it was just an example of the hypocricy that your argument displays. Competative bidding only matters when you can use it against a political opponent.....

You liberals are so transparent!

But then again, I didn't expect anything different.

__________________
1998 W202 C230 - The money pit of late.
1984 W126 300SD (356,800 miles) Gone to the wrenchapart
1984 W123 300D Gone to the wrenchapart
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 (sold but not forgotten)
1986 Buick Grand National 3.8l Turbo (86k miles)
1966 Glassic Model 'A' Replica http://www.glassicannex.org

http://banners.wunderground.com/weat...Round_Rock.gif

Ah...but you see, I'm not comparing people to people but actions to actions.....he is saying that this contract was given without competative bidding, I'm simply pointing out that this was not unheard of in the previous administration, so where was the outrage back then.

If it weren't for double standards, Liberals would have no standards at all.

__________________
1998 W202 C230 - The money pit of late.
1984 W126 300SD (356,800 miles) Gone to the wrenchapart
1984 W123 300D Gone to the wrenchapart
1972 W108 280SE 3.5 (sold but not forgotten)
1986 Buick Grand National 3.8l Turbo (86k miles)
1966 Glassic Model 'A' Replica http://www.glassicannex.org

http://banners.wunderground.com/weat...Round_Rock.gif