Let's see which neo-con on this board can be the first to utter the shrill cry that General Anthony Zinni is, at minimum, unpatriotic, and at the worst, a traitor.

The distinguished general tonight said that heads should roll at the Pentagon over the fiasco that is Iraq. He wasn't talking the rightness (or wrongness) of the war itself, but of the incompetence with which it has been waged. He blamed Pentagon planners for not planning well, and for ignoring the military's assessment that the Iraq occupation would take many more troops than Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz thought.

But of course no heads have rolled, and no one expects the no-fault Bush administration ever to admit that anything is in the least wrong. Even when Bush blamed faulty intelligence for telling him that there were WMD in Iraq, no heads rolled.

And tomorrow, Bush will speak (in prime time) to explain our "course" in Iraq, such as it is. I'm sure, being the golden-throated orator that he is, Bush will electrify all of us into a renewed sense of patriotic fervor. Not.

Joe B.

Zinni's interview is here. Perhaps all the people who have called us "Bush haters", "al-Quada sympathizers", "traitors", etc will read it and see that he is saying the same damn thing we have been.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml


Also, I got an advance copy of Bush's speech:

Since Rumsfeld has now joined GWB in not reading newspapers, I doubt they will watch '60 Minutes' either.

Read today that Rumsfeld has outlawed cellphones with cameras, digital cameras and camcorders in military compounds. No more sending pictures home of mommy and daddy because bad pictures became public.

It's not the cameras, stupid!

Give me a break man, the guy is a former supreme commanding general. No matter what the forum, his opinion is an important one in this debate. He's also retired, which means he doesn't have to be a grovellling bootlicker like that crowd behind Rumsfeld.

Yeah. They ship our dead soldier's bodies home in secret, torture people in secret and those darn digital devices just keep screwing it all up! IS this any way to run a war! Give me that cell phone!

If he says "stay the course" we're screwed

Posted by Botnst: Wow! 60 Minutes just had a show critical of the Bush administration! Wow! Big change from the usual 60 Minutes shows full of gushy lovemaking for conservatives and Bush.
B

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Let's see, Zinni's interview was full of facts and his informed military opinion. If one had facts to refute him, or military background even richer than his, one could challenge what he said. If, however, one were bereft of either facts or experience, then there is only one alternative--blanket condemn the show as biased (without one shred of proof, of course). WayTooBombast elevates the discourse again!

Joe B.

And promoting a book I might add, this is some ground breaking stuff.

Posted by MedMech: And promoting a book I might add, this is some ground breaking stuff.

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Apparently, when one writes a book, and promotes it, he instantly loses his credibility. It's easier to say that than to analyze what he says and refute it with facts.

Joe B.

Joseph, not that I claim any military expertise, but the “war” went very quickly. The guerrilla tactics seem to be a whole additional story. Short of carpet bombing what do you suggest to stop Iraqi guerrillas set on killing anyone around them? What did Zinni suggest?

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...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"

Zinni suggests firing everyone invovled n the grounds of incompetance. That would be the first step in rectifying the situation. I agree.

War of 1812... Revolutionary War... Vietnam, etc. etc... these became "guerrila wars". Are you telling me that those past events are not considered wars because of the strategy? Nearly all wars turn into guerilla warfare.

These guys are starting to sound like voices in a chorus, aren't they? Is there some point where you find them credible? How many does it take? 20? 50? 100? Or is it just the message?

Zinni said nothing that most of us did not already suspect! He also said nothing that he and other informed military strategists did not say long before we got railroaded into this conflict. Eventually the neo-cons transparent attempts to discredit these well-informed critics should fall upon deaf ears. I'm just disturbed that there is nothing being made of the whole Halliburton-Carlyle Group connection to this war. (Cheney still connected with Halliburton and G. Bush Sr. and John Major with Carlyle Group). If that's not a series of conflicts of interest large enough to drive a boatload of Maybachs through, I don't know what is.

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1991 560SEL (254K miles)
1980 Lincoln Mark VI - Givenchy
1979 Lincoln Mark V Collector's Series
1979 Lincoln Town Car Collector's Series
1979 Ford "Effie" Pickup (in gradual transformation to a show/street truck)
1969 Lincoln Mark III (waiting for "Overhaulin" to call)
1989 Lincoln Towncar
2001 Lexus GS300 (spousal unit's daily driver)

When they stop doing it for profit.