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  #1  
Old 07-26-2004, 01:05 PM
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Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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1992 300CE W124 Doorlock Problem

All was fine with my car until I went to valet the other ngiht, I don;t know what the guy did, but my locks are not working right. Here is the scenario. Perhaps somone can she some light on this....

1. I can lock the car witht he key from the drivers side and trunk and all locks work as they should.

2. I can lock the passenger door witht he key, and it locks but none of the other locks lock or unlock.

3. I have a remote keyless entry system I put in. It is hooked up correctly. It is no longer locking or unlocking the doors.

4. If I reset the vacuum pump under the passenger rear seat, the keyless entry will lock the doors but will not unlock them.

5. I already disconnected the keyless entry locking from the door lock system to test.

6. Even after a reset of the vacuum pump, by disconnecting it and waiting for 5 minutes or so, the passenger door will not lock or unlock the car.

I need to get this figured out. I will be filing a claim with the valet place, as they are the ones who after me waiting for my car for 20 minutes came and said we were having a problem with yoru alarm, which is when the problem started. THe valet I guess did not understand to push the button on the remote with the picture of an open lock on it to unlock the car. I spoke with valet manager, and he has said I can come and file a claim. I just want to be able to tell them what the problem is, and be able to get a figure on how much it will cost to fix. I suspect it is electrical, as the pump operates all the doors from thr trunk and driver side, but the passenger side does not operate all the doors or the trunk.

Please advise, I am usually very good at figuring these things out, but it is driving me nuts.

Hopefully I can file the claim, and they will let me get it fixed at their expense, considering they are the ones who caused the problem. But you never know, they may tell me it's not their problem, in which case I am stuck fixing it at my expense. But since I can probably figure it out with your help, I am asking for the assistance in where to start.

I never had this problem in the 4 years I have had the car, and I have had remote keyless entry on it since I bought the car.

Anyone have any ideas where to start. Please rememeber I already disconnected the remote keyless entry portion of the alarm system to eliminate it fromt he problem. If after disconnecting it, the problem was not there, I would know where the culprit is, but since it is still doing the same thing, I am at a loss right now.

Anyone have any ideas as to where the problem is, I am sure it is somewhere inside the door perhaps. After looking at the door lock system, I know there are 3 wires that send a signal to the pump for lock/unlock. Blue, Yellow and Green. I also know there is the white wire with 3 pins inside it's white plug that is also there at the pump with another wire that has 3 pins in it in a black plug. When I disconnect this wire, and the main power lead from the pump and the lead with the yellow green and blue wire in it from the pump connector, and wiat for a few minutes, then plug it back in I hear the pump make a noise, and the locks work fine from the driver side and trunk, but when I try locking/unlocking from the passenger side, only the passenger side locks and unlocks.

Please advise. I just want my locks to work as they should.

Alon
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2004, 04:17 AM
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After speaking with my mechanic, he suspects something is up with the central locking pump no recognizing the passenger door when the key is turned in the passenger door.

Anyone have any ideas on my problem? I would like to get it resolved.

Alon
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2004, 09:06 AM
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Ashman, it may just be a coincidence that the passenger door lock problem became apparent after the valet drove your car. I suspect that the valet would have only used the driver's door to enter/exit your car. Perhaps one of the wires broke where it passes through the door jamb inside a flex boot. Not to discourage you, but I'll be very surprised if the parking lot proprietor pays for the repair.
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2004, 09:32 AM
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Door lock problem

Hi there, I hope you found the problem but if not, here are some sugestions.

First (forgive me) I must say that it seems unreasonable to blame the valet or the restaurant. Cars break down, parts malfunction and break/screw up all the time. If he/she stomped on the remote or phisicaly broke the door handle with excessive force etc you could blame him/her but withought phisical damage present, I think you should concentrate on finding and fixing the problem. I have been in your situation and later felt embarassed, thats why I'm sharing this with you.

From your description of the problem, I think it is either the passenger side door handle (lock switch) causing the problem, or a break in the (green?) wire that goes from that door handle all the way to the round plug connector on the vac pump.

The lock switch in the door handle sends a 12 volt signal to unlock, or a ground signal to lock, when the key is turned.

Check the green wire at the round connector at the vac pump with a 12 volt test light or a volt meter, in fact check all three wires one at a time while both locking and unlocking the doors from the right and left doors as well as the trunk.

If you don't get both 12 volts, then ground, when locking and unlocking, that line is your problem, trace it back to the door handle. It should be either a break in the wire (possibly in the door jamb) or a faulty door lock swicth.

As for the remote, It may work as it did once you find and fix the problem.

Hope this helps,

Acky
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2004, 01:22 PM
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Well the problem was not there. The alarm system I have is very particular to how the car is opened.

Like I stated the locks were working fine with this system for a long time. I did not have the problem before, as sometimes I lock the car with the key and not the alarm from the passenger side, and I had done so actually just the other day before this happened and allw as working fine.

THe valet himself told me he was having trouble with the alarm, and when I said did you use the remote or the key he said he didn;t even notice the remote , and had used the key and had been trying it in the other door locks to try to get the alarm to stop,m whn it was not the factory alarm goign off, but the aftermarket unit and he was too stupid to use the remote.

I know how to install alarms, and pretty much any electronics in any car with regards to things like that. I have done my own tracing and the problem does not lie in the passenger door connection.

The manager of the valet was very nice and understanding. As it stands I am severely inconvenienced by this, because I now have to lock the car with the key and set the alarm and unlock the car with the key and unset the alarm. it makes me wonder why I even have a keyless entry system at this point.

I'm not looking for people telling me that the valet may not pay, I could care less if they do or don't. The point is The locks were working before they parked the car, and were not when they brought me the car. so therefore they are liable for it in my book. They have insurance for these things, and I do not think they are going to argue a hell of a lot about it, it is a waste of their time and mine to do so. I could care less about whether someone thinks it is morally wrong. I know the facts of the matter. I brought it and dropped off the car. locks were working fine, as I had used them not 10 minutes before I got there. I picked up the car, got home 10 minutes later, and the car was not locking by the remote. It was late at night I was tired, so I figured I'd look at it in the morning. When I checke din the morinign and reset the pump and checked allth wires, that is when I discovered the passenger door lock was not unlocking or locking the car, though it was doing it before.

Regardless, I am looking for the cause of the problem and what I can do to fix it. Because if they don;t pay I have to pay to fix it, so if I can do it myself I can save everyone a hassle.

The wiring is fine, I have checked it all including inside the door. and the vacuum lines are fine. That si why it is suspected to be something with the pump, but I am not about to spend $350.00 on the pump unless I know for sure it is the problem.

I know others must have had this problem what I am looking for is a few things I have not thought of to try.

Alon
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2004, 02:00 PM
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door lock problem

I must ask, did you check the wiring and components with a test light or volt meter while locking and unlocking the doors and write down the results?

A signal to the vac pump from either door lock and/or trunk lock will affect the pump in the same manner and it must respond regardless of where the 12 volts or ground comes from.

Also, the vacuum system is closed therefore if there are no leaks, all actuators must work when vacuum is applied unless one of the actuators is out of adjustment of broken/leaking/seized.

No offence or dissrespect intended but you sound like a "lawyer". It's a good thing that the car didn't have a more serious problem.

Labeling a a person "stupid" because he tried to unlock your car with the key you provided speaks volumes. These comments do cause reactions.

Lets stick to the problem, I repeat, did you check the wiring and components with a test light or volt meter while locking and unlocking the doors and write down the results?

Mine is a 92 300e so the fact that yours is a coupe may be confusing. Also Do you have vacuum operated front seat back locks? could there be a vacuum problem in his area?

Acky
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2004, 05:01 PM
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yes I tested with a test light and volt meter and all appears ok on that end.

No I am not a lawyer, but my father is and grandfather was, and I have learned about certain things in that regards.

As far as calling the guy stupid, I think I have a right to, when you park cars for a living, you should know that if there is a remote with a picture of a lock that is open, that must mean it is the unlock button. it is called common sense, especially in the lot where I was with them parking hundreds and hundreds of cars every night. It is not like the alarm had 20 buttons, it has 2, one with a locked lock on it that is red - that means lock. the other, an unlocked lock that is blue, that means unlock. The fact that he spent 20 minutes trying to get the alarm to shut off just proves his stupidity.

I work on cars for a living, and I have never had a problem with any remote or door lock, and I install remote door locks including actuators and everything all the time. I also take apart car interiors all the time to do installations. Lets see what have I taken apart in the last few months.... well for starters several mercedes, from SL500's to C classes, several porsche's, several bmw's, several ferrari's, a couple of bentleys, range rovers, you name it. In each case, I had to figure out how to take things apart. It's not all that hard, you just take the time to figure it out properly, and you don't end up breaking things...

After speaking with my mechanic again, who was the shop foreman at beverly hills ltd mercedes and at auto steigler for many years before opening his own shop, who has been working on benzes for over 40 years, said that 99% of the time it is the central pump that is the problem. there are no vacuum leaks, which I checked. I even had the door panel of and checked everything inside the door, including jumping the harness on the actuator direct to the pump. I think it is either the door actuator or the pump. THough My mechanic, who is right on his diagnostics 99% of the time, is going to put in a new pump and see what happens. he believes that the part of the pump that receives the signal from the passenger door is malfunctioning and he has seen this happen many many times.

I do appreciate people's responses with technical information on the subject. What I don't like is people posting with remarks as to the valet people. that is not the issue here, the door locks are the issue. If I wanted to ask about what I should do about the valet people, I would ask that in the open discussion as it is not a technical issue.

So back to the real matter, I have done the following:

1. Disconnect the remote door lock wires from the vacuum pump. to eliminate the alarm wiring to make sure it is not interfering with the stock system.
2. Reconnect the interuppted wire back together
3. Test voltage. found voltage at all 3 wires in the one plug, and no voltage at the 3 wires in the other plug.
4. Test wires for the pump power. Found correct readings on those wires.
5. reset pump by unplugging it.
6. Remove door panels and check readings on wires on each door. readings appear the same. for both doors.
7. Test voltage for lock/unlock.

By process of elimination, and after the diagnosis by my mechanic over the phone, I am led to believe there is a problem in the pump as my mechanic thinks, so I will replace the pump and see what happens. Worst case is I return the pump for a refund.

Regards,

Alon
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2004, 05:40 PM
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door lock problem

OUCH!

You certainly THINK like a "&!#&)+~ lawyer"

If all of your readings and values at the vac pump are correct, then changing the pump seems like the right choice BUT, the only problem I have with that is that (please verify this with your expert mychanic) I understand that the three pin plug at the pump which receives the lock (ground) - unlock (12 volts) signal from the locks, are connected together within the pump. If this is the case then the pump is not at fault.

Perhaps the wire from the green wire pin is broken within the pump, if so it could cause your problem, and I'm not sure if you could get at it to inspect/repair it.

Let us know, and if the new pump solves the problem you may want to take the old pump apart just to see what is causing it to malfunction.



Regards,
Acky
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2004, 07:03 PM
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That was my thinking. Replace the pump if that doesn't work, replace the actuator in the passenger door and put the old pump back.

I'll let you know, I'm sure the difference in price between the actuator and the pump is substantially different, I'm hoping for the actuator but since my mech who is right on with his diagnostics 99% of the time, I'm going to try what he thinks first.

Alon
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2004, 12:22 AM
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no alarm with remote lock

Did you find the problem yet?

I just installed a basic remote entry unit in my 92 300E today. I didn't want the engine interupt ect. just remote door locks.

As you probably know the unit gets spliced into the drivers door lock/unlock (blue) wire at the vac pump. I used two relays to get the proper switching.

You mentioned you are an installer so mabe you can help with a solution to this.

The doors and trunk lock & unlock fine both with the key and the remote.

When I tested the factory alarm by openning a rear door when locked, (through an open window) the alarm works fine when locked with the key, BUT the alarm does not arm when locked with the remote.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Acky
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  #11  
Old 07-31-2004, 10:37 PM
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Problem solved

Alarm problem solved.

You can NOT install a remote entry unit in all W124 models as shown elsewhere in this forum.

Only if your car has exactly the same wiring configurations should that method be used, and even then you must test the factory alarm to ensure that it works properly with the remote as well as the key.

When installing the remote control module, you MUST cut the lock/unlock wire going to the vacuum pump that also signals the arm/disarm wire going to the anti theft alarm control unit to arm and disarm, connect the wiring in series at the cut wire.

If you use the wrong wire, remote locking and unlocking will have no affect on the alarm. For example if you lock the car using the key, or the passenger door lock button, then later unlock the car using the remote, the alarm will be activated and you can only stop it by using the key to unlock/disarm.

Also if you lock the car using the remote, if itís not properly wired, the alarm system will not arm, so itís useless.

I shudder at the thought of how many W124 models (and others) are out there with botched alarm systems for this and other reasons.

Forget the "blue wire" unless you have two of them.
Acky
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