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  #31  
Old 12-08-2000, 10:58 AM
Q Q is offline
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Quote:
yes - break the law - and drive a "reckless" 90mph on the highway (any highway in any condition. Remember: it's a blanket law). It is an amazingly harsh penalty, in my opinion
In my opinion, it should be recognized that you have to draw the line somewhere. What speed would make you most comfortable to have people whizzing past your grandmother at? I don't think it is so much the speed that is considered "reckless", as it is the differential between you (read: me too) and the other vehicles. Penalties are, by definition, harsh, otherwise they would be called rewards.
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  #32  
Old 12-08-2000, 02:20 PM
LarryBible
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On the more open areas of Autobahn in Germany, it is not uncommon at all for that differential to be 50MPH or more. Those folks have been educated from the start to move to the right and let the faster traffic pass. They have very few accidents. Of, course it is very difficult and takes lots of training and serious testing to get a driver's license there. Here, on the other hand, you must be 16 and be able to see better than 20-200.

Grandma needs to stay in the right lane.

My $0.02
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  #33  
Old 12-08-2000, 04:25 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Livonia, MI USA
Posts: 99
Here driving is, as is everything, a "right" and an "entitlement". In MI you don't even have to read English to get a license. If you get 16 out of 20 wrong on your no-brainer renewal exam, they give you the right answers and ask "Is that clear?" Then you get your new license. There is no road test after you first get licensed at age 16; you're set for life.
Safety is the responsibility of Ralph Nader, NBC Dateline, and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, aka "Appropriate Huge Tax $ for NHTSA and Institute Fascism in the Auto Mfg. Industry-PAC", at the behest of the lawyers, and at the expense of consumers/taxpayers.
That'll be 2 cents.
Over...
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Now you're suckin' Diesel!

'88 300SEL
'92 300D 2.5 Turbo
'96 Lincoln Town Car. The Jazzmobile.
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  #34  
Old 12-08-2000, 05:39 PM
makakio
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If graduated licensing and Europe-tough licensing practices ever make the ballot here in the USA (and if they do I sincerely HOPE there's no grandfathering clause for already-licensed drivers), I'll be the first in line to vote for it. Hell, I'd even campaign in my home town for it.

But of course that will never happen because somewhere along the line it was determined that the cost associated with going through a regimented driving program would discriminate against those who can't afford it.

So tell me: how does nearly ALL of the European Union get away with it? I'm especially referring to places like Italy, where the average per-household income is less than $12,000 (US) and yet it still costs between $1,700-$2,500 to qualify for a license?

I vividly remember women my grandmother's age *screaming* past me on the 'bahn in big BMWs and MBZs and "handling it". I don't think it's an age or cultural issue - it's an instruction and ability issue.

I have dreams of "Grade A+" express lanes flying over the cities and highways where less-capable drivers clog my current commute.
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  #35  
Old 12-08-2000, 11:39 PM
roas
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I second that makakio!

I think it is pretty sad that is so easy to get a licence in the US. The requirements are so low that most everyone will end up getting a licence, dangerous or not! I think it is ass backwards to apply a (capability) blanket law to the driving populace when you know damn well that grandma in the old buick is not going to handle a car as competently as a driving enthusiast who spends much more on a fine piece of engineering, and who takes pride in driving proficiently!

With the current state of technology, all Highway speed limits should be replaced with "Dynamic" posted limits (IMHO). A speed limit set is for ALL conditions (rain, night, etc.), in the middle of a clear sunny day conditions are optimal and the limit should reflect that. With the availability of the microprocessor these tasks are made simple and reliable, whats the hold up?


We should revamp the qualifications to something more in line with Germany. I think it cost over $1500 in driver training alone and if I'm not mistaken several years plus the min. age is 21 I believe. Americans are an especially "hurried" breed, and higher standards could only raise the speed limits for thoughs people that can prove that they are able. Italy issues licences on ability I believe. Lets get back to our roots of "Life, LIBERTY (Hwy patrol need to look that definition up!), and the pursuit of Happiniess (boy, happiness to me sure does come close to speeding!)!

I bet a cowboy hawling ass out in the middle of nowhere never got pulled over back when Liberty meant something! What the .... is going on, we have been snookered so to speak, our rights to liberty are all but vanishing?


Am I the only person the feels this way? I smell another Poll question.
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  #36  
Old 12-09-2000, 03:46 PM
WmHarlow
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Aaron,

Just a couple of stories to help you out.

1. A friend of mine was stopped going from Columbus to Dayton doing 145mph in his retired police cruiser. He paid a hefty fine, spent 3 days in the county country-club, and is not allowed to drive in the fine state of Ohio for 7 years! Good thing he lives in KY now!

2. A fellow Physicist friend of mine once got out of a major ticket. He proved mathematically, based on basic principles of acceleration and top-speed of the specific model cruiser, that the police car could not possibly catch him if he were going as fast as they said he was.

From the stationary point of the police car, to the stop point of both cars, he proved the cruiser would have to accelerate to over 200mph instantly ... in order to catch him, based on the radar indicated speed of 130.

With all the diagrams, pictures, and mathematical figures on the black-board, the judge threw out the case and asked my friend to please drive a little slower..... he did NOT want him back in his court!

Good Luck with it.... hope it is not too expensive.
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  #37  
Old 12-09-2000, 08:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 135
Quote:
Originally posted by LarryBible
Those folks have been educated from the start to move to the right and let the faster traffic pass. Grandma needs to stay in the right lane.

My $0.02
Every damn time I drive on the freeway theres a stupid idiot going 60 in the fast lane with no one ahead of him for about a mile with the right lanes open. It pisses me off like no other that people cant obey this simple rule. Maybe 1 in 20 cars will pull over in the right lane when they see you coming. I spend most of my time in the far right lane because everyone for some reason has to be in the fast lane and it's a lot faster. Isn't it true that you can get a ticket in Germany if someone has to go around you in the right lane to pass you because someone wouldnt get out of your way? I would do anything for a rule like that to be implemented here. Sorry if I went off the topic.
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  #38  
Old 12-10-2000, 09:27 AM
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Posts: 71
Some advocate for speed in England once said and I believe that "High performance cars don't Kill, Low performance drivers do". I think this is exactly true. Having lived a greater part of my life in Europe and done enough autobahnís to last a lifetime I was shocked at the quality (of lack thereof)of driving here in America.
Firstly, the speed limit of 55 in the year 2000 is not realistic. This speed limit (please correct me if I am wrong) must of been put in place when cars all ran on 4 wheel drum brakes, tires skinner than my daughters bike, cars that were as aerodynamic as a moving house and guzzled tanks of petrol to go down the road.
Secondly, if the qualities and abilities tested to get your drivers license do not change maybe an advanced drivers license should be introduced. Here you will be tested/trained on how to handle a car at certain speeds, road manners - like passing on the left, reducing speed in wet conditions, realizing that you've missed your exit and taking the next one instead of cutting up all lanes to reach that exit. Basically, general common sense issues that make a difference between driving and Driving.
With this advanced license you'd be allowed to drive much faster than the low limits currently set.
Showing this license to the traffic cops will be a "get out of jail free pass" and entitle us to enjoy the benefits of current, tried and tested technology.

Phew, that's my vent out - sorry about going off topic.
As to that ticket, if you've got the time fight it. You've got a lot more to gain than lose.

Tolahouse
'97 E420
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  #39  
Old 12-10-2000, 01:02 PM
patsy
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I seem to recall that when I was young, the speed limit here was 80 MPH, It was lowered during the fuel crisis of the middle seventies and early eighties. A 1983 Cadillac Eldorado has a V8 which was installed to shut down to 4 cylinders unless the extra power is absolutely necessary. The other option that year was diesel. Both were to conserve fuel. I believe that the government saw a way to control the speed limit, to perhaps save lives and fuel, by controlling state's funding of road improvements, by withholding federal money if states raised limits. I know the limits are slowly going back up, due to public demand. I think the cars of the seventies with the enormous weight and engine design were the biggest part of fuel waste. I love SUV's but they are the fuel glugging modern day seventies waste mobiles-regardless of speed. I would like to see a study of the fuel consumption of well built driving machines of today, to show what fuel consumption at higher speeds is like. I would think that distance traveled versus usage would be better than at slower speeds.

I feel afraid when I am stuck in a slow moving group on the highway, it feels very unsafe. I also believe that it is illegal to pass on the right. I have noticed that driver's in the fast lane are so eager to get passed a slow car in the fast lane that they change to the right lane to pass very often without any warning, and the slow vehicle is trapped in the fast lane while car after car do the same.

I would like to see a much higher speed limit everywhere, combined with much more strict driving regulations via education.

There is nothing more frightening than an experience I had with another driver recently. I was in the old '79 300SD, in the right lane of three lanes. I was getting off at the next exit. A very new Mercedes merged on to the highway, I moved to the middle lane to let the driver on. The driver of the new Mercedes changed lanes without looking at all, he went from one side all the way over two more lanes to get in the fast lane. He almost took me out of this world, by smashing into the side of me. I braked and changed lanes very quickly to the fast lane(If a car had been in the fast lane that would have been it), fortunately he was going so fast that by the time he was in the fast lane he was 50 yards ahead of me. He never even noticed that he almost killed me. I was very impressed with my old baby. The handling was still perfect.

Forgive me if my information is incorrect.
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  #40  
Old 12-11-2000, 03:16 PM
makakio
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Stupid drivers will be stupid drivers - though I ***** about solutions there really isn't one simple solution to be had, if all drivers are to co-mingle on the same road surface outside of two things: better driver training and preparation as well as stiff fines for incompetence. Think about this - who gets the ticket on a clear, sunny, light-traffic day: the guy in the fast lane driving 85mph or my grandfather tooling down the highway at 60mph (that would be UNDER the speed limit out here in CA), in the fast lane, because the slow lane "is too bumpy because of the trucks and damn it I pay taxes for these roads and I'm going to drive in whatever lane I feel like"? Said grandfather has not, in all these years, pulled to the right for ANYBODY and curses them like mad or worse yet, races some poor guy trying to pass on the right.

And it's not specific to my gramps. Passing on the right is an unfortunate thing you do here in CA (if you want to get somewhere at *at least* the speed limit) but here you have to prepare not only to pass on the right, but to race up to 90mph because the bastard next to you doesn't want you mucking up the ten miles of clear roadway in front of him.

Look, I think the state penalizes the right people most of the time, but I think that there's waaaaay too much tolerance for incompetence. Their mindset is "slow is good and slower is better".

Every single day I see people driving much too slowly, or stopping on highway merges, or tooling along in the fast lane at slow speeds, or merging over to the fast lane as soon as they enter the highway (at 45mph!). These morons are as big a danger (or worse) than people who drive quickly on the left and for the most part DON'T want to pass on the right. Yet these same incompetents NEVER get the ticket (keep in mind, some of you with really thin skin and PC-oriented backbones that I consider my own mother and grandfather "incompetents" when it comes to driving skill and attitude).

Because they're slow. And somewhere in that they invoke the use of ABS and emergency lane changes with everyone around them the CHP appears to applaud their behaviour.

Maybe I just need to move to open country. Or europe.
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  #41  
Old 12-11-2000, 03:34 PM
LarryBible
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About ten years ago, a study showed that most accidents on buisy metro freeways were the cause of the too slow drivers, but they were rarely actually involved in those accidents, they just did things that led to the accidents. I wish I had a copy of that article.

My $0.02,
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  #42  
Old 12-11-2000, 05:27 PM
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yal yal is offline
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Location: New York, Long Island
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Its gotten so bad in NY that you can actually hit 75MPH in the slow lane and look across as you whizz by the fastlane drivers.
Drivers in NY are so used to people hugging the fastlane that I have completely stunned some drivers by getting out of their way. The look on their faces as they go by on the fastlane is one of utter disbelief, some even look lost, "Oh My God he got out of my way..now what do I do?"
We have about 6 expressways cutting through Queens, NY, basically you need to get on them to get anywhere, yet my driving test never went anywhere near any of them. This is the problem!
This kind of climate creates aggressive drivers who swing from lane to lane to avoid the slow people thereby putting other people in danger.

To all you fastlane huggers out there DON'T accelerate when you see fast drivers coming just get out of the freaking way AND for crying out loud use your turn signals when you do! OH and no a Navigator can't go around a highway bend at 75mph without some serious effort. And if I am breaking the law I don't need you to place your car in front of me like some kind of highway vigilante.
And what is up with merging into the highway. Is it really that difficult a thing to do? Use the whole merge lane, that's what its there for.

There needs to be a serious effort to training drivers before they hit the road and highway. People are getting killed for no reason on both sides of the coin. If the same effort were used to train airplane pilots as is used to train car drivers I wouldn't fly, ever.

This is just my humble opinion ok, so I don't need anybody parsing out my posting to reply back. Drive safely this Holiday all.
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  #43  
Old 12-12-2000, 01:21 PM
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Location: PA
Posts: 5,440
I agree that the driving tests are too easy. I took my test 40+ years ago in what I would call a miniature golf course at the state police barracks. I stopped at a stop sign, turned a corner, made a 180 degree turn in a restricted width area and parallel parked. Speed didn't exceed 10 MPH.

When it was over, I was licensed to drive at 65MPH and in traffic. What a joke.

This is equivalent to building jet plane, testing at 100 MPH and certifying it is good for Mach2.

Another pet peeve of mine is inspections of vehicles. Statistics tell us that 96% of accidents are caused by drivers and the remainder caused by defective vehicles.

So what is inspected, not the cause of 96% of the accidents. No, the 4% cause is inspected and even if it was 100% effective, only 4% less accidents would happen.

So much for government bureaucracy.

P E H
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  #44  
Old 12-12-2000, 01:33 PM
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Location: Livonia, MI USA
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In Michigan they don't even inspect the 4% (no vehicle safety testing). This in a state where many vehicles are literally a shadow of their former selves, with massive rust-through from road salt, another evil cursing all of us to accommodate the many drivers who know how (barely) to drive on dry roads only.
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Now you're suckin' Diesel!

'88 300SEL
'92 300D 2.5 Turbo
'96 Lincoln Town Car. The Jazzmobile.
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  #45  
Old 12-13-2000, 07:24 PM
makakio
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And one more thing to rant about!

If you drive w/o insurance and get caught or worse yet, you are involved in an accident w/o insurance, I FIRMLY believe in the state seizing your ride and selling it at auction.

Of course, the damn ACLU has problems with that too...

If the law regards driving as a priviledge and not a right how does the civil liberties union manage to hamstring it so badly?
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