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  #1  
Old 11-23-2000, 02:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 102
ok were in the market to get a new car for my mother... my father put a deposit on the last C class in this region.. but the only prob is that its basically the base model.
c240 leather inserts. no cd , no heated seats, no power seats. all together with taxes/interest its going to be around $40k
but i also went in search of a car for her.. but instead visited BMW.. they have a 2001 323i leather, prem pkg, cd, heated seats, power seats .. for 31.9 and a 330i prem pkg. cd heated seats power seats, xenons for 39k

to me it looks like the BMW is a better value.. both cars would have gotten the extended warantees because my mother has thing for keeping her car for 10 yrs.. dont ask me why.. but thats just her..

our question is.. overall value wise and prestige i guess.. (i know u guys are going to go with the benz but) what would you guys go for???

btw.. the C240 is currently at port just arrived and will be at the dealer by mon... this is the last C Class to be delivered into the NY/NJ region.. waiting lists are a yr long..

what should we do???
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  #2  
Old 11-23-2000, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Toronto, CANADA
Posts: 1,193
The Mercedes will be worth more in 10 years. Also it will likely be less trouble to maintain towards the end of the ten years.

JP Toronto

------------------
Jason Priest
1986 420SEL
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  #3  
Old 11-23-2000, 06:02 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 463
Ever considered buying a Canadian car?

Even with import/export taxes you'd save serious money. London is a 10 hour drive from New York city (made the trip myself a few years ago with 8 other people after graduation) and Mercedes Benz London has 6 on the lot currently. Base MSRP's here are only
$46995.00 give or take!!!!!!!!!! With our pathetic loonie trading today in the $0.64 range your dollar would go a long way!!!!
Think about it. There is really no comparison between the Mercedes and BMW. BMW owners are just so.....___________.


------------------
'91 190E 2.6
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  #4  
Old 11-23-2000, 08:02 PM
Ashman's Avatar
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,748
I think the BMW will be too sporty. The mercedes should have a supple ride, nice quiet cabin, and should drive very nicely.

I've always been a mercedes person, my friend just got a 2001 330CI, nice looking car, but when driving it I feel it lacks something, but I cant describe it.

The previous 3 series (E36 chassis)was a better car than the newer one (E46 chassis) IMHO. but if going new, the mercedes will have a higher resale value after the 10 years than the bmw will.

Alon

------------------
'92 300CE
Metallic Black (Blue Flaked) on Parchment
Clear Corners
94-95 Tail-Lights
Debadged
Black Grille Insert
78.5k Miles

Future Upgrades:
Sportline Suspension
17" AMG Monoblocks or EVO II's
Euro Headlights
Performance Chip
AMG Exhaust

Click here to Go To My 300CE Page

[This message has been edited by Ashman (edited 11-23-2000).]
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  #5  
Old 11-24-2000, 03:11 AM
LarryBible
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BmwTek,

Where are you located? Unless you're talking Canadian dolloars, $40K is too much to pay for a base C240.

How many miles would she drive in this 10 years? If it's only going to be about 100,000 miles, the BMW may indeed be more value if you like it. I personally like to drive an equivalent BMW as much or more than the Benz. But, if you're going to drive it very far, that's where the Benz pays off. For starters, BMW's have timing belts versus chains on all MB's. A BMW is a cheaper built car, you get what you pay for.

Also, all models in the US come with power seats and the CD player can be dealer installed for about $600 at any time, and be identical to the factory installation.

The most important thing I could suggest is to ensure that SHE drives both cars.

Best of luck,

------------------
Larry Bible
'01 C Class, Six Speed
'84 Euro 240D, manual, 533K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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  #6  
Old 11-24-2000, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 6,844
My first piece of advise is don't do anything because "it is the last car" of the century.

My second piece of general advise is don't buy the first models of a new car line. Do as I say not as I do (my wife drives a late production 1998 ML320).

I have driven neither car so I can't make any comparisons. But after driving thousands of both makes and owning scores of MBs, I am currently driving a 97 540i. I have a new world of respect for the phrase "Ultimate Driving Machine".

I think the mid-size MB is the best car for almost every set of conditions. But I can tell you I sure like driving the mid-sized BMW.

BTW I am driving this car because it represents the greatest technical challenge I face in staying current with modern auto systems. BMWs use of electronics, computors, software, etc. is much more intrusive than MBs. Computors talking to computors and software/programming from the driver to the repair technician. I'm not sure this is a benefit, long term, to the vehicle owner.
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2000, 08:01 PM
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Location: Northern California/Western Washington
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There is a thread in another forum on this site that Larry started about the choice between a new C and a W124. Larry likes his new C, I drove one with an automatic transmission and prefer my 300E. In the interim, I've had the chance to drive my sister's new 2000 323i, with most of the options you describe, but with 5-speed. If the choice between Bimmer and Benz involves an automatic transmission, I can only suggest to you that the Bimmer is going to be more satisfying than the Benz in that configuration. The Benz with auto was sluggish - the transmission on the one I drove was dancing all over during semi-spirited driving. I didn't mention this in the other thread, but I also think that the interior of the new C looks more like a Chrysler product than a Daimler product, and that's not a compliment.


P.S. I priced a 6-speed C240 with the Sport stuff. With tax, license and other options the final tally was a hair under $40,000 (US). Larry is right about the price quoted to you. I also agree with Larry that as a driver's car, on the whole, most Bimmers are more satisfying than Benzes. Taken as a whole, however, I think most Benzes represent a better all-around choice when value, build-quality and longevity and other factors are considered.

One non-critical remark about Ashman's comment that the BMW might be too sporty - I have read that BMW sort of "detuned" the power steering in the 3-Series order to make the car easier to park in tight spaces. In other words, steering by single finger. That may affect the "sporty" feel of the car.
------------------
David
1986 300E - "Liesl"
(107K)
1978 300D - "Gunther"
(147K)

[This message has been edited by dtanesq (edited 11-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by dtanesq (edited 11-27-2000).]
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2000, 10:45 PM
Ernest Dixon
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I purchased (brand new) a 95 540i, and at that time I thought it was the best car I had ever driven. My ex-in-laws were a BMW family. I purchased my 93 500E in May, and in comparison - my 500E is a better car now than the 95 540i was brand new. After three years of driving the 540i, several things started to fail, wear out, lose their "tightness", etc. The in-laws BMW fleet (525i, 735i, 95 740il, 99 740il, and 99M3 all started to show their wear in three to four years - i.e. significant repair issues. As a matter of fact, only the 99 740il is still owned by the in-laws.

I grant that there are few cars that are built, drive and feel like the 500E, and I can tell you that the MB is much more solid, tight, and a pleasure to drive - especially during a high speed run.

BMW is generally a more spirited drive - and too common on the road. For example, within 10 yards of my parking space at work there are 3 M3's, one 528, two Z3's, and a 325 - while there are three MBs in the whole garage - an E420, a CLK 320, and mine. I "danced" with one of the M3s and word got out - no more tango at work.

I will never go back to BMW. Just MHO. Follow Larry's advice and get your mother to drive both and see which she prefers - after all her opinion is the one that really counts.



------------------
Make it a Good One!
1993 500E
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2000, 11:44 PM
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Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
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While I'm sure BMW's reliability has improved in the last few years, my friend's 91 M5, has had around $20k in repairs since he got it in 1995, and the car has about 90k miles on it now, most of the problems he had were at 40-75k, including, full suspension rebuild, numerous engine replacement parts, battery, alternator, radiator, water pump, air pump, injection, valves, and more.

The suspension was rebilt because it just plain collapsed while he was driving, and shoved the wheels deep up intot he wheel well, twisiting he fenders upwards. that alone was over 4k in repairs, though at the same time he also spent another 4k on a full repaint, the factory paint had lost all of its gloss after 6 years.

I like the BMW's as far as the way they drive and feel, but I prefer the benz for longetivity and build quality, and I just happen to like the way the benz drives, with my driving style. I like to do nice acceleration runs, but never go racing around, or even gett he car near its limits, I mostly drive around 45 mph in 35mph zones, if its clear, and I drive the speed of traffic all the other times.

I would base the choice on how she drives, if she's into cruising comfortably, then either car should be fine, but in my opinion, the bmw's acceleration and handling don't suit my driving style. I'm a pretty mellow driver.

You can't go wrong with either car, but I find the BMW Oeners trade in every 3 years, no one I know has kept a bmw they got new for more than the lease period.

My Friend with the M5, bought the car used, and plans to keep it for a while. after he repaired all that was wrong, the car drives great, and he only really has to take it into the shop a few times a year, but he probably spends on average, $1500-$2500 a year to drive the car, and thats for repairs/maintenance.

I drove many 3 series bmw's before driving the mercedes, and to me the BMW felt light and not as solidly constructed as the mercedes. to me the mercedes feels like a tank, and if I'm in an accident, I know that mercedes will hold up better. One of the bmw's I drove had meticulously maintained records, only 50k miles, and the car was as clean as they come, with every little thing fixed everytime it was noticed. The Mercedes still drove better, which had no records, and 28k more miles. So that was how I decided on the car.

Case and point, I killed a BMW 3 series a few years ago with my jeep, in a 15 mph accident. person went through a stop sign in front of me, I hit brakes, jeep didn't stop, but I was only going 20 when I hit the brakes, the bmw was totalled, whole frame twisted and all. My jeep needed a bumper, fender repair, new grille and the headlight bottom part got cracked so it was changed.

To me the Mercedes Feels more substantial than the bmw. And I am not saying substatial as in "class" I mean it as in it seems like it is just more of a car.

She should drive each car for a few days and see which one she likes, thats the one for her to get. the key here is to drive the car, not for a few minutes, but for a few days, take one home, try it out, most dealerships I have been to will give you a cr to try for a few days if you want to buy one.

I had an M3 for 3 days a couple of years ago, because thats when I started looking at cars... of course the m3 was outta the price range, but it does drive nice, but still like I said before. the BMW's feel light to me.

My 300CE to me feels more solid than the 2001 740IL My friend has. My Friend even commented on how nicely my car drove compared to his. He was going to get either the 740 or the s500, and decided on the bmw because it was about $30k cheaper than the s500. I tried to convince him to get the benz, but he wouldn't do it, he said he wanted to drive a car that was more sporty than the benz.

Ok I'm written wnough about this.

Alon

------------------
'92 300CE
Metallic Black (Blue Flaked) on Parchment
Clear Corners
94-95 Tail-Lights
Debadged
Black Grille Insert
78.5k Miles

Future Upgrades:
Sportline Suspension
17" AMG Monoblocks or EVO II's
Euro Headlights
Performance Chip
AMG Exhaust

Click here to Go To My 300CE Page
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2000, 12:04 AM
Ali A
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I love the Mercedes and they are great cars, but I am more of a BMW person (sorry Mercedes guys). I think they are sportier and a better value.
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  #11  
Old 11-28-2000, 09:16 AM
LarryBible
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Sportier and better value?

Depends on what you're going to do with the car. If you only drive the average 13K miles per year, the BMW is usually more fun to drive and easier to get with a manual transmission. For limited mileage usage it will last until you're sick and tired of it.

For high mileage users, such as myself(50,000 miles/year) the BMW won't give you the high mileage that the equivalent MB will.

This has been my experience,

------------------
Larry Bible
'01 C Class, Six Speed
'84 Euro 240D, manual, 533K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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  #12  
Old 11-29-2000, 09:50 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 399
$40K for a base C240? What has the dealer been smoking? Check the US website mbusa.com. A base C240 with automatic transmission should be about $32.5K including transportation. Furthermore, anyone saying they have the last car to be imported is lying - PERIOD.
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