Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-21-2005, 10:19 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
Evaporator Thermistor

Any advice on modifying thermistor; sucess stories, failures, etc?

__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-21-2005, 05:17 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
dieselarchitect
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 38,553
thermistor

is either a typo or a part i am not familiar with.

tom w
__________________
[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-21-2005, 06:09 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 161
What car and year?

Are you aware of :

http://pages.prodigy.net/jforgione/MB_S500.html check item 18, It's something kind of similar to what I believe you are speaking of.

I did read your post and link about Ford Scorpio AC modifications. Sounded just like what I wish my W140 had. But , where on my 95 S420 is that thermister located. Likely way down in the bowels of the evaporator housing. Anyone know which wires (colors), where they come out, and where they go, and what relays (switching on-off the compressor) they control?

Good luck,
DanielW
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-21-2005, 11:03 PM
skiier3_9's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 975
Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth
is either a typo or a part i am not familiar with.

tom w
a thermistor is a resistor designed to maximize the resistance change with temperature
__________________
Daily Driver: 02 E430 4MATIC
In the family: '03 E500 // '04 ML500 // 64 220SE
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-22-2005, 12:23 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
I know there is at least one who has adapted his ets (evaporator temperature sensor) as I read his thread of how he was unfortunate/amazed to make a block of ice. Didn't hurt his system, but it has the potential to starve the compressor (not good) so it should be "tuned" carefully. I believe he had it set (ets) at 0 degrees and was going to raise it a bit. ASAMOF what is the compressor cut out temperature on a 201 ets?

I know it's not hard to adjust; I'm just looking for what size resistor for w201 ets. He's close.
__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-22-2005, 12:27 AM
Moneypit SEL's Avatar
Now what?
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SE PA
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by KATSCAN
Didn't hurt his system, but it has the potential to starve the compressor (not good)
Y'know...you ought to try and understand air conditioning before you attempt to modify it. How, exactly, will the compressor 'starve'?
__________________
1989 300 SEL that mostly works, but needs TLC
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-22-2005, 09:28 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
Well, perhaps starve is not the correct term..but if the evaporator is frozen, lets say it's because you've modified the Evap Temp Sensor too low of a value. the TXV is closed yet the compressor keeps running putting a lot of stress on it.
__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-22-2005, 09:35 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
common dude; why so rude?

If we knew everything, we wouldn't need a site like this. I do have an engineering background. It's my nature to make things better; as it as been said on another ACforum; "AC system performance is dependant on the vehicle it's in" some vehicles run better on a different system. I'm looking to make a hybrid, and have found out that Bentleys have done this in the past. Anyway, here's some AC info for you Moneypit......the author uses the term "starve" I believe. Maybe you should email him.



http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/march2003/mech.cfm
__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-22-2005, 10:03 AM
Moneypit SEL's Avatar
Now what?
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SE PA
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by KATSCAN
Well, perhaps starve is not the correct term..but if the evaporator is frozen, lets say it's because you've modified the Evap Temp Sensor too low of a value. the TXV is closed yet the compressor keeps running putting a lot of stress on it.
First, why would anyone modify a txv to close completely? Can that even be done? Aren't you playing around trying to increase refrigerant flow through the evaporator, and not limit it?
Second, a 'frozen' evaporator refers to ice on the outside. Refrigerant is still happily circulating inside the system.
Which brings us to an obvious limit in the A/C system. The evaporator. If the evaporator is allowed to reach a temperature lower than 32F, the moisture condensing out of the air will freeze on the evaporator instead of dripping off and draining away. Therefore, the evaporator cannot be colder than 32F. At least, not if you want the system to provide cold air. 3540F is the practical limit. All the valve and thermistor twiddling in the world will not change this. If an A/C system does not maintain the evaporator temperature below 40 degrees and above 32 degrees, improvements can be made. But only until the correct evaporator temperature is achieved.
__________________
1989 300 SEL that mostly works, but needs TLC
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-22-2005, 10:09 AM
Moneypit SEL's Avatar
Now what?
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SE PA
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by KATSCAN
If we knew everything, we wouldn't need a site like this. I do have an engineering background.
Which means you might know something about engineering. Apparently, it does not mean that you know you should understand what you're dealing with before you try to change it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KATSCAN
It's my nature to make things better; as it as been said on another ACforum; "AC system performance is dependant on the vehicle it's in" some vehicles run better on a different system. I'm looking to make a hybrid, and have found out that Bentleys have done this in the past. Anyway, here's some AC info for you Moneypit......the author uses the term "starve" I believe. Maybe you should email him.
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/march2003/mech.cfm
Or not. I've hardly the time to go about finding and correcting every last misconception on the internet. I'll settle for the ones that find me.
__________________
1989 300 SEL that mostly works, but needs TLC
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-22-2005, 10:46 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
Remember, we're talking about modifying the ets to allow the evaporator to get colder than spec....therefore the evaporator will freeze literally on the outside. The txv is still operating; it senses cold so it closes....no refridgerant going through. You now have a high side pressure increasing with very little or null low side vapor getting to the compressor. the ford scorpio spec is -2 c on it's evaporator....I want mine lower too.

Here's another thread....

BTW, I think someone had mentioned that the reason that car companies don't utilize more TXV is because of cost....I don't by that in today's economy. Competition is fierce and a main selling factor of the car is it's air conditioning. That comment about cost would be true if we assume both systems employed in that particular car performed the same. That's the right business choice.

I believe that auto engineers use the best system for their car today and it's based on passenger comfort. The argument can be made that car companies don't use a "hybrid" system 'cause it would add another $125.00 to the vehicle when they can get a max cooling cheaper with a FOT....that would make sense too. the only company I know of to use the hybrid is Bentley.
there is a lot of resistance to make things better here when we talk about AC. Replacing the original is good, easy, been there done that, if your benz performs well in your climate. Well, not everyone is that fortunate.

http://www.autoacforum.com/messageview.cfm?catid=2&threadid=14142&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=
__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-22-2005, 11:05 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
right, I understand fluid will still be happily going through the evaporator....hence the accumulator is needed. right, the txv would not be completely closed as this would be per my modification/adjustment too (low superheat). I use the term closed when I should have used "closes but not completely because it can't."

I do try to understand and get all points of view before I begin something...I'm conservative by nature (majority engineering behavior).

It appears that you know everthing and wait for stuff to find you right?
Hence you won't look at the thread. Bliss.....Once again, your AC might be fantastic or just great in your climate and you're happy as a lark. Come on down to Fla. for a while. I agree, the evaporator is the limiting factor..I'm trying to do something with mine. Please don't condemn me for trying.
__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-22-2005, 11:09 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,141
The main difference between a SEER 10 and 12 units in a home system is a TXV. Since I purchased my last one for $20, you'd think market forces would prevail and increased production rates would make the SEER 12 units come down to the same cost.
Hasn't happened- industry has fought it and lobbied our gov to continue making SEER 10 units.

Stupid!

Michael
__________________
Michael McGuire
83 300d
01 vw A4 TDI
66 Chevy Corsa
68 GMC V6 w/oD
86 300E
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-22-2005, 11:11 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
In addition

You can run the evaporator several degrees below freezing if your car is in a hot climate. The warm air across the fins will keep the evap from freezing. Surely, you've been in a car with extremely cold vents haven't you? It is my belief that foreign cars and maybe ford incorporate the outside temp as a switch/relay that adjusts the evaporator temp sensor to cut the compressor out at a lower, below freezing temperature in the evaporator.
__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-22-2005, 11:14 AM
KATSCAN's Avatar
look to the cookie
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pensacola/south carolina
Posts: 106
I meant to say low side pressure switch, not ets for the asain and ford. Yes the switch is fixed, but their maybe something in-line resistor adjustment from computer management.

__________________
JHaburay

1972 280se 4.5 "princess"
1986 2.3-16v first 100 (099) USA
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page