Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-29-2006, 09:47 PM
190E///AMG's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10
Manual Swap, No start, Need xpert opinions

Hello,
I've bought a manual swap kit from a fellow member of 190rev forum. Everything bolted right on, minor changes in wiring, driveshaft discs etc etc.

My only one problem thats left to fix is the car cranks but there is no spark, here is the logical route to elimination of the possibles... btw car ran fine prior to swap. Car is a 1987 190E 2.3 8v with 150 000km original/ no winters

-Checked all possible fuses on the car... all are ok
-Redid all ground cables
-Tried the Ignition module on another 190 ... it worked
-Changed ignition coil, did not resolve the problem
-Tried ignition coil from an audi 90. Did not start (same symptoms)
-Tried to see if there is fuel in the distributor, almost sprayed me

Now here is the one that sucks
Found that my crank position sensor is in the back (flyweel) and took it out, cleaned it, still no spark...

Here is my question, the seller told me the tranny and flywheel etc. came from an 87' 190e 2.3 (assuming he's not lying to me), mine is the same model year and engine type. How would i know that the position sensor is not working right or the flywheel would be the wrong one??? IT fit perfectly, the clutch works fine now, everything seems fine but i cant get her started.

On the automatic flywheel, i looked over and over and didnt see any sign of magnetic strip or anything that would serve as a sensor reading. What and where does this sensor point and read??? Also, what is the purpose of the crank position sensor in the front (the one that goes directly to the diagnostic plug) ???

Please help, what do i do???


Last edited by 190E///AMG; 05-29-2006 at 09:57 PM.
  #2  
Old 05-30-2006, 01:53 AM
GVB GVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 178
I don't know at what part to respond to. I'll start at this, why in hell did you swap the engine out? It's no 16 valve and will never be a 16 valve, or a 2.6 six cyl. Why, was it bad, or are you looking for more power???? Clue us all in.
I think the thing you need to do is go find a shop that is going to work with you. Because trust me, you are going to need a shop that will work with you. The reference sensor is just a fancy enclosed magnet. It picks us the signal from the flywheel, that made from metal
  #3  
Old 05-30-2006, 09:29 AM
190E///AMG's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10
Noo i didnt swap the engine, it is the original one, i'm just swapping trannies... form auto to manual...

Can anyone help me to find out how to make my older type flywheel work with a rear placed reference sensor???
__________________
1987 190E 2.3 8 Valve
1993 VW Passat Turbo-D
  #4  
Old 05-30-2006, 10:38 AM
GVB GVB is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 178
You have to buy the right parts. Call your local dealer, they are usually good with parts. You put in a pilot bearing, right?
  #5  
Old 05-30-2006, 10:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,804
Check the sensor values...
Approx 900 ohms ..you are looking for .5v. at cranking speed.
if the sensor is working, the flywheel may not be indexed correctly [ which means you will still have spark, but not at compression stroke]

He may aslo have sent you a flywheel from a 16 valve engine[ 102.983].. they used the front sensor only. You have a 102.985.

http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=1M30LAGSC1TC0NTXVR&year=1987&make=MB&model=190-E-004&category=F&part=Reference+Sensor

http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/mercedesshop/sophio/wizard.jsp?partner=mercedesshop&clientid=catalog.mercedesshop&baseurl=http://catalog.peachparts.com/&cookieid=1M30LAGSC1TC0NWHYW&year=1987&make=MB&model=190-E-003&category=F&part=Reference+Sensor

Again , test the sensors ohms value and cranking output.. that will tell you if it has a good coil [ ohms] and if the flywheel is triggering it [ volts ]................

Last edited by Arthur Dalton; 05-30-2006 at 11:11 AM.
  #6  
Old 05-30-2006, 12:04 PM
190E///AMG's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10
Ya well i have no spark at all, otherwise even if at different timing there was spark i should get some clunking or uneasiness from the engine
It just cranks freely as if all spark plug wires have been taken off... and also, i checked for spark with a single spark plug and grounded it... absolutely nothing.. nada...

The flywheel is from 2.3 8v supposedly and there is a split where from 85/86 transitionning to 87/88 models the sensor is in the back. I need to know how could i tell a wheel that would work for my car... what is the sensor reading... for sure its not reading the teeth of the starter. it has one position where the crankshaft is at TDC... thats what its looking for but how is this represented on the flywheel itself??
__________________
1987 190E 2.3 8 Valve
1993 VW Passat Turbo-D
  #7  
Old 05-30-2006, 01:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,804
It should be triggered by a magnetic segment on the flywheel.
When that passes the sensor , you should get a voltage reading to the ECU .
Did you Ohm the sensor????????
  #8  
Old 05-30-2006, 01:56 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,804
Pages 11,12.13, and 14..

http://mb.braingears.com/201_DISK1/PDF/30010.pdf
  #9  
Old 05-30-2006, 11:11 PM
190E///AMG's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10
Ok, on page 11, the manual flywheel pic, i dont have these 2 tabs that are shown there, but on my automatic one, i remember seeing it.. Can those from the automatic be reinstalled on the manual one??? It will require some welding for sure but can it be done?? Would 1mm error ofset the ignition quality and timing??

Here is what the flywheel shoulda looked like... its the same but without those 2 tabs

__________________
1987 190E 2.3 8 Valve
1993 VW Passat Turbo-D

Last edited by 190E///AMG; 05-30-2006 at 11:23 PM.
  #10  
Old 05-31-2006, 08:18 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
You need a flywheel! NO the auto trans ring-gear will not work.
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
  #11  
Old 05-31-2006, 09:19 AM
190E///AMG's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10
Its not the ring gear im talking about, the ring gear fits thats not the problem, its those 2 tabs which when passed at speed in front of the crank position sensor create differences of current.. one negative one positive
__________________
1987 190E 2.3 8 Valve
1993 VW Passat Turbo-D
  #12  
Old 05-31-2006, 09:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by 190E///AMG
Its not the ring gear im talking about, the ring gear fits thats not the problem, its those 2 tabs which when passed at speed in front of the crank position sensor create differences of current.. one negative one positive

You need the correct flywheel.. you do not have the correct one... you have the one that uses the front sensor, you need the one that uses the flywheel sensor set-up..
  #13  
Old 05-31-2006, 12:32 PM
190E///AMG's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 10
Well its nowhere to be found, so ill use my modification skills... i was told by a pro german mechanic that "this is all north americans do, just replace parts" in germany this is doable at any machine shop and they will do it with quality.. tyvm
__________________
1987 190E 2.3 8 Valve
1993 VW Passat Turbo-D
  #14  
Old 05-31-2006, 01:58 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
You need the correct flywheel! You will never get the car to start & have the correct timing unless you have the correct flywheel.

The correct MB part number is 102-030-15-05!
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
  #15  
Old 05-31-2006, 03:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Florida / N.H.
Posts: 8,804
..plus the flywheel will have to be rebalanced.
My fear would be one of the segments coming apart and blowing through the bell housing at high RPM ..I am sure the fasctory process would be stronger than a modified flywheel.

Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page