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  #16  
Old 05-25-2007, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorhead View Post
Not if you convert the fittings...
The EPA link I provided does not support your conclusion - what is the source of your information?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorhead
Yes it is flammable...so is gasoline....diesel fuel.
The LIQUID amount needed to charge a typical MBZ system is only about 16 OUNCES. A typical automobile carries about 10 GALLONS of fuel.
Duracool has a flash point of around 1600 degrees F
I'd also like the source of your 1600F flashpoint claim. My research indicates that Duracool is a mixture of propane and butane. Propane has a flashpoint of -153F and butane has a flashpoint of -76F. How can a mixture of the two have a flashpoint of 1600F? I did find a reference on the Duracool website MSDS that states the autoignition temperature of Duracool is 1684F, the column for "flashpoint" says "N/A". There is a big difference between the terms "flash point" and "autoignition point" when one is evaluating the safety of a chemical and its appropriateness as a substitute refrigerant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motorhead
Again as I said above.... The Choice is YOURS.
No argument from me, I've made my choice and will continue to use R12 and R134a for my vehicles. The basis of a quality decision is sound judgement AND good information.
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2007, 04:18 PM
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Agreed, I did not think it was legal to use Duracool in MVAC systems.
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewtoo View Post
Along those lines, I understand propane is a good refrigerant.
Yup...and an A/C tech I know told me of a number of systems he'd seen it done on. Ran for years w/o issue and blew ice cold air. Not suggesting that one should do the propane thing, just making a point.

What I find interesting is all of the yack that goes on at this forum about it's illegal to do this and illegal to do that, etc., etc.

There are countless "blends" or "alternate" refrigerants available and contrary to what the R-12 purists report, they blow ice cold air. If you say they don't, you have never used them.

If the EPA was REALLY that concerned about someone mixing Duracool or Freeze-12 or any other alternative refrigerant with R-12, they would not allow these alternative products to be sold on the open market.

If you are a purist, use R12. It's good refrigerant. If you want to use an alternative refrigerant, that's your business. People have been doing it for years and how many cars have exploded by them doing so?
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  #19  
Old 05-25-2007, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmercoleza View Post
Agreed, I did not think it was legal to use Duracool in MVAC systems.
Check that EPA link. HC refrigerants are legal, but not as replacements for ozone-depleting refrigerants (i.e., R12), and not where prohibited by state law. A handful of states don't allow it.

It is legal to use HC refrigerants in a factory 134a system, after evacuation. Mixing is now allowed.

It is legal to use HC refrigerants in a converted 134a system, as long as the system wasn't converted for the purpose of moving from R12 to HC. Then it isn't legal.
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2007, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1991300SEL View Post
If the EPA was REALLY that concerned about someone mixing Duracool or Freeze-12 or any other alternative refrigerant with R-12, they would not allow these alternative products to be sold on the open market....If you are a purist, use R12. It's good refrigerant. If you want to use an alternative refrigerant, that's your business. People have been doing it for years and how many cars have exploded by them doing so?
Uh... The EPA banned the production of R12, since they banned it I'm guessing they would HAVE to offer people that were running R12 an "alternative refrigerant" What else could they do? Tell everybody that has an R12 system that they can't repair it? Not likely IMHO.

I don't know of any cars (first or second hand) that have ever suffered a hydrocarbon based refrigerant fire/meltdown while the A/C was in operation. I'd be a lot more concerned about having an A/C condenser full of propane sitting right behind my bumper if I was in an accident. The condensers in a modern cars are paper thin and in virtually every moderate to severe front end collision the A/C condenser will end up getting punctured. If there is an ignition source while your Duracool is leaking you are going to be involved in a fire, and you can start a pretty good fire with a pound of propane. Also keep in mind this hazard is not yours alone, the passengers in your car and other cars/people that are involved in the accident could also be seriously effected if your car goes up like a roman candle.

Is it really worth the risk to save $50 on a refrigerant charge?
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2007, 03:52 PM
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I'm more concerned about the poor AC shops who may not know what mix in in the AC system and try to recycle it and contaminate his whole supply, costing him big bucks.
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  #22  
Old 05-29-2007, 11:24 AM
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I'm returning the Duracool kits today...
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  #23  
Old 05-29-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimFreeh View Post
Uh... The EPA banned the production of R12, since they banned it I'm guessing they would HAVE to offer people that were running R12 an "alternative refrigerant" What else could they do? Tell everybody that has an R12 system that they can't repair it? Not likely IMHO.

I don't know of any cars (first or second hand) that have ever suffered a hydrocarbon based refrigerant fire/meltdown while the A/C was in operation. I'd be a lot more concerned about having an A/C condenser full of propane sitting right behind my bumper if I was in an accident. The condensers in a modern cars are paper thin and in virtually every moderate to severe front end collision the A/C condenser will end up getting punctured. If there is an ignition source while your Duracool is leaking you are going to be involved in a fire, and you can start a pretty good fire with a pound of propane. Also keep in mind this hazard is not yours alone, the passengers in your car and other cars/people that are involved in the accident could also be seriously effected if your car goes up like a roman candle.

Is it really worth the risk to save $50 on a refrigerant charge?

Production - yeah - no more.

Availability - uh...still available. R-12 is out there and not ALL of the alternative/blend refrigerants contain propane as some here go on and on about.

Lots of bad misinformation going on here.

I'm out of this one.

Use what you like to keep cool.

Been cooling down lots of cars for many years with blends/alternatives.
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Last edited by 1991300SEL; 05-29-2007 at 02:37 PM.
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  #24  
Old 05-29-2007, 04:48 PM
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Ive used freeze12 in my 420sel and it works really well, but someone told me it can gel and lock up the compressor. my system is down right now after replacing the o rings on the expansion valve and the whole drier. all i got to do is have it vacuumed out and refilled with r12 i bought on ebay.
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  #25  
Old 05-30-2007, 01:48 PM
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Waiting for Hatty and Brian C to weigh in on the subject....
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  #26  
Old 08-09-2007, 09:49 PM
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My 1983 Mercedes 240D airconditioning does not cool. Hel anybody.
This vehicle has only 180,000 miles.
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  #27  
Old 05-08-2008, 11:10 PM
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I have been using duracool for 5 yrs or more and it works great and so does the stop leak. I was gonna replace the evaporator on my 96 S600 and the duracool stop leak fixed it. It ran 2 years until I got rid of it..
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