Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-17-2007, 01:52 PM
Zeus's Avatar
Moderating, Eh?
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,774
1998 E430 M113 oil comsumption?

My new (to me) E430 had its last oil change at the dealer on Mar 28, 2007. The dealer used synthetic 5W30 oil. Mileage was 131,900 Km.

I just checked the oil today, June 17, 2007, and it is getting low. Mileage is now 136,400 Km. So it has been about 4500 Km since the last oil change. Of the space between the upper and lower limits on the dipstick, the oil level is at the last 1/4 before hitting the minimum mark. The car has not displayed a 'low oil level' message yet, but I am due for an 'A' service, which will be done this tuesday.

How much oil consumption is normal for this engine?

I have no idea if the dealer filled it to the top, and it seems that this car should be using at least a 40 weight? As in 5W40 or Ow40? My owner's manual does not contain info on oil weight. It says 'check you local dealer'. From my research online here - http://www.whnet.com/4x4/oil.html - , it seems it should have 5W40 229.3 spec full synthetic oil.

I am wondering if the lower weight oil could be an issue. I thought I saw a bit of smoke from the exhaust when I started the car today, but if I did, it was minimal.

Oh - and I had the engine tested for emissions this past April 2007, and it scored perfect zeros. All 0.00 on HC and CO2, etc. at idle and at speed.

TIA,
Chris

__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

Last edited by Zeus; 06-17-2007 at 02:06 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-17-2007, 02:03 PM
Zeus's Avatar
Moderating, Eh?
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,774
I found this post -

Quote:
Originally Posted by DR.DIESEL View Post

The SPEC from Germany on the M112 V-6 and M113 V-8 is .8 liters per 1000km.
Yes previous MB engines use no oil, but the Modular motors can and some do burn oil.
It depends mostly on how the engine was broken in. Sticking
rings can be a small issue, but those cars usually burn 1l in 500km.

I wouldn't give 1qt in 2500mi the slightest worry.

Dr.D
So by this count, I could have used 3.6L in the 4500 Km since the last oil change?

That seems like a lot.
__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-17-2007, 04:15 PM
Tomguy's Avatar
Vintage Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: near Scranton, PA
Posts: 5,191
Assuming your E430 is like every other vehicle I have ever owned and/or checked oil on (which is a lot), the difference between the high and low marks is 1qt. I believe this is the case even on my 4.5 - which holds 8 quarts. If it's at the low mark and I add a full quart, it's sometimes slightly over the high mark.
Therefore, you've not even used 1 qt in the time between oil changes.

If your consumption of oil between changes is less than the difference between the high and low mark on the dipstick (not the bottom/end of it, just the low mark) then I wouldn't give it a second thought.
__________________
Current:
2018 Chrysler Pacifica Limited
1999 Chrysler 300M - 214,141+ miles

Previous:
1972 280SE 4.5
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "Hefe", 1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo "Jeepy", 2006 Charger R/T "Hemi"
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-17-2007, 06:07 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
Chris here is what you should do:

When the oil is changed again check it in the morning. See where they left it. Then see what it does, btw with a true synthetic you really need to check them after the car has been sitting awhile. They take forever to drain down.


Around here the dealers use 0w40 or that new 5w40 in all the cars, try a 40 weight oil.

I wouldn't be worried about a quart or so every few thousand miles, or KM's whatever you guys use up there.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
2007 Tiara 3200

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-17-2007, 07:58 PM
Zeus's Avatar
Moderating, Eh?
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,774
Thanks guys. What prompted all this checking on my part was the puff of smoke (I think) I saw when I started it this morning. This was after a long highway drive yesterday in hot weather.

So on a whim, I checked the oil after the drive and it was at the low mark. Like Hattie said, I let it sit and checked later and it was up to 1/4 of the accepted range. Not a huge deal, but down about a litre from full.

I'm going to get 5W40 when I go for the service this Tuesday and will monitor from there.

lol...my 300E had the infamous timing chain/camshaft seal oil leak and I was constantly adding oil to it. Since my E430 doesn't leak a drop, maybe I'm just not used to actual engine consumption, rather than leaking - where you don't notice the consumption as you're always adding oil...
__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-17-2007, 10:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 3,726
Try a search - there's quite a bit of information on 112 and 113 motors having oil use problems - ring problems requiring major engine overhauls. Apparently MB has been helping with the cost in many cases. This is what scares me about 112/113 motors - the prospect of needing a bottom end overhaul. Say what you will about 104/119 motors - they don't have bottom end problems, or even top end problems for that matter. As these 112/113 cars decline in value the need for a bottom end overhaul, combined with the difficulty of doing modern engine swaps, is likely to send a lot of these cars to their premature graves.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-17-2007, 10:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Baton Rouge La
Posts: 2,630
i thought the difference between the high and low mark is two quarts.. i could be wrong....
__________________
1989 300ce 129k
( facelifted front,updated tail lights, lowered suspension,bilstein sports, lorinser front spoiler, MOMO steering wheel, remus exhaust,stainless steel brake lines). (Gone)

1997 s320 154k (what a ride). Sold with 179k miles. Replaced with Hyundai Equus

1994 e320 Cabriolet 108k



1972 280se 4.5 153k Owned for 12 yrs, sorry I sold it


[/SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-18-2007, 10:27 AM
Zeus's Avatar
Moderating, Eh?
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,774
Quote:
Originally Posted by deanyel View Post
Try a search - there's quite a bit of information on 112 and 113 motors having oil use problems - ring problems requiring major engine overhauls. Apparently MB has been helping with the cost in many cases. This is what scares me about 112/113 motors - the prospect of needing a bottom end overhaul. Say what you will about 104/119 motors - they don't have bottom end problems, or even top end problems for that matter. As these 112/113 cars decline in value the need for a bottom end overhaul, combined with the difficulty of doing modern engine swaps, is likely to send a lot of these cars to their premature graves.
I did read up on that. The recall and class action suit seems to be centered around early cars that began life using dino oil. The dino oil, combined with long change intervals caused sludge build-up and then the failed rings, etc. Affects 98-00 cars I think. The entire FSS system was built around using synthetic oil. Also - I think posts on forums constitute a definite minority. There are a lot of happy owners out there with engines in great shape.

Mine has had synthetic all its life.

I started the car this morning and it was fine - no smoke, nothing. So I am beginning to wonder if I even saw any at all. It never makes any smoke while driving.

Lee, you are correct, the gap between the minimum and max is two quarts.

I am going to get the service done tomorrow and will monitor from there.

I would not be scared off an M112/M113 engine, as long as it has been maintained well. I will be doing oil changes every 10,000 Km now, basically one additional change between each A/B service.

There seems to be a lot of opinions regarding the interval length. Some swear by oil changes every 5000 miles, regardless of synthetic. Others, including techs like Gilly, say that 10,000 Km is fine with synthetic. Reasons being a large capacity - 8.5L - to absorb contaminants and the properties of the synthetic oil itself. There doesn't seem to be any consensus here on this topic. Figures, it's an oil topic.

I'm going to stay in between and change mine at 10,000 Km (every 6,200 miles).
__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

Last edited by Zeus; 06-18-2007 at 10:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-16-2007, 07:58 PM
Zeus's Avatar
Moderating, Eh?
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,774
Update

I had the oil changed about a month ago and am using Elf LSX Synthetic 5W30 (229.5 spec).

When I started the car this morning, after the car had been sitting for two days, it blew some blue smoke. The smoke only lasted a few seconds and then the car ran clear.

I also have been watching the oil level and since the last oil change, it has consumed some oil. It has used just under one quart in 1240 miles (or about 0.8L in 2000 Km).

My tech has advised using a cleaner/detergent to remove engine sludge at the next oil change. If this does not help, he then potentially suggested valve stem seals, though he mentioned he hasn't seen too many valve stem problems with this engine. I found this in a search, which seems to echo my tech's opinion -

Quote:
Originally Posted by duxthe1 View Post
I'd agree that the M112 engine should not be burning that much oil. Most likely the rings are sludged and leaking oil past. When encountered at the shop I work for we recommend doing an "engine flush" with a BG product specificaly designed to cut sludge out of engines. Doing this almost always improves oil consumption execept in the worst case scenarios. With the relatively low mileage of your engine, I doubt that you have a "worst case".
Any other ideas? The car has only blown smoke twice (that I've noticed), and each time it has been after the car has been sitting a while. Once driving, etc. it is clear and never blows any smoke. Runs perfectly and idle is smooth. Could it be the valve stem seals or is it more likely rings (gulp)? TIA.
__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

Last edited by Zeus; 07-16-2007 at 08:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-16-2007, 11:09 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
Does it have service records? If so how often was the oil changed?

If it is the rings I'd just drive it, it could take a long time to get worse. Plenty of time to trade it in...


I have to say this is disapointing, it seems the M119 was a far better V8. I have seen examples that used the same oil for 30k miles and still ran well....

The start up smoke would lead me to beleive its valve steam seals... With rings its usualy constant, and you won't see any oil in the exhuast until its REALY bad. Probably like a quart every few hundred miles bad.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
2007 Tiara 3200

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-17-2007, 10:00 AM
Musikmann's Avatar
CPO 2001 E320
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: West Virginia, USA
Posts: 4
Cool 2001 E320

I was becoming worried about oil consumption too. I bought the car as pre-owned (53,000 miles) and did not think to check the dipstick oil level right away either. I had to add 4 quarts in the 1st 6000 miles, but I only drove 400 miles between the 3rd and 4th quarts; this is what got my attention.

I was discussing this at my dealer, and one of the seasoned techs told me to drive the car harder - I had been putting around like an old woman. I also performed what a friend called an "Italian tune-up". I added a large bottle of Chevron Techron Concentrate and started running the Hell out of it. Sure enough, it started using less oil.

I just had a "B" service done and now have the new Mobil1 ESP 5W40 229.51 spec oil. So far and after 1100 miles, the car measures the oil level as o.k. I need to pull the dipstick to confirm, and plan to do that today.
__________________
Ich liebe meinen Mercedes Benz!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-17-2007, 10:13 AM
Zeus's Avatar
Moderating, Eh?
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,774
Hattie, car has service records. It was changed at the MB dealer, according to the FSS, so about every 17,000 Km or so. I don't know if they used synthetic or not. They would have used whatever was recommended at the time I would guess.

When I started it today, it was fine. No smoke at all - completely clear. It seems like it only smokes after the car has been sitting for at least two days without driving.

So I'm hoping it is minor at this point, either valve stem seals or perhaps minor sludge buildup. If the rings were sticking badly, I'd expect to see higher consumption and/or more smoke while driving?

Musikmann - lol, driving hard isn't a problem for me. She gets a good workout most of the time. I didn't buy this car with an upgraded suspension just for tooting around the neighbourhood! Thank you for the feedback though!
__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired


"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-17-2007, 02:35 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,306
I'm no M113 expert maybe one of the tech's that frequint this forum will weigh in.

But it really sounds like valve stem seals.
__________________
2017 Chevy Silverado 1500 LTZ
2007 Tiara 3200

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
-Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-17-2007, 03:29 PM
uberwgn's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New England
Posts: 979
Zeus, you might want to try a dose of AutoRx. It's a targeted product that contains strong detergents that can free up cruddy rings. Also, using the proper mfr-spec'ed oils can help relieve some deposits, but that takes far longer.

We've got three W210 cars in the family - - none of them burn any measurable oil between prescribed ODIs.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-17-2007, 03:36 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,538
Zeus,

I'm assuming you read ILUVMILS' comments in the this thread.

'98 E320 burning lots of oil

Particularly:
"In my experience, problems with M112 valve stem seals are virtually non-existent. The only time I've ever replaced them was as a pre-caution, when the motor was torn down for other repairs. All the oil burners I get at my shop end up needing new piston rings, at best. I've seen plenty that needed engine blocks/pistons too."

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page