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  #16  
Old 07-03-2001, 06:28 PM
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I see a couple possibilities. One is that you have an intermittant fuel pressure problem causing the adaptation problem and the second has to do with the time interval after sitting.

The adaptation thing really needs an explanation first to see whats happening. The car comes with a calculation based upon sensor readings and it starts running the car. The computer monitors the mixture at the exhaust O2 sensor. In early models we had to adjust the base mixture so that the ability to correct had equal distance rich and lean. With adaptability the car now corrects the base mixture by averaging its prior immediate history. If it is adding more fuel than the base calculation it moves the middle. It has only so much capability to enrichen or to lean out the mixture. When the average can't be corrected any more either rich or lean, the code is set.

Most of this is a software issue and leaving a computer disconnected for extended periods resets fully all the adaptions to base calculations. This does not happen by just resetting the code.

There also is a service bulletin pointing out that scan data can not be used for evaluating MAF sensors as the computer will creat a substitute value if its other values calculate a problem. The ability for the computor to recalculate for suspected problems can also sometimes pass through code resetting. A scan tool can reset adaptation values to base settings but long term disconnection or battery disconnection with the pos and neg cables put together to remove capacitor memory, can also reset the values.

I don't know what the new controller does but I bet its a totally software issue. They have probably increased the adaptive range or decreased the rapidity of corrective movement.

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  #17  
Old 07-04-2001, 01:29 AM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
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. . . self adaptation

Self adaptation can be reset by grounding pin 1 to pin 4 for 8 - 9 seconds on the X11/4 38 pin diag connector provided that there are no other codes in the system. This will 'reset' the ecu to 'mid' range. It then 'learns' and adapts as you drive.

I've done this reset for the '94 S420 described previously and it works for about 4 - 6 days (not sure how many 'trips' that is). So if you want to reset it, you needn't pull the battery leads.

But it always comes back as yours does. So far it's the ECU!

BTW, what happened with Willy's tests of your ECU?

[Edited by JimF on 07-04-2001 at 01:32 AM]
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  #18  
Old 07-04-2001, 02:00 AM
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Willy is trying out the new chip but has yet to give me the verdict. I do intend to have the fuel regulator checked as well, since that might be causing the problem. I don't know if this is related, but I did mention a low idle problem, and today, noticed that it is more pronounced when coming to a moderately hard stop. The tach needle dips below 500, and most of the time it returns to somewhere above 500, but every so often the car stalls. Does this suggest some sort of related problem with fuel delivery?
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  #19  
Old 07-04-2001, 02:00 AM
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Replace the {slide}
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  #20  
Old 07-04-2001, 02:03 AM
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What?
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  #21  
Old 07-04-2001, 02:29 AM
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. . . same as run.exe

Your problem seems to be similar to run.exe (Scott). Maybe he is 'monitoring' and can give you (us) a run down of what fixed his problem.

His idle was also low (below 500rpm) and would stall on hard turns left or right. His car however is not the same, a 500E (or E500).

Do a search on RUN.EXE to review the thread. I think it has about 50 or more replies!
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  #22  
Old 07-04-2001, 11:04 AM
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. . . injectors?

This DTC states "Fuel injectors open/short or self-adaptation (SA) in LH-SFI control module (N3/1) at limit".

In my friend's S420, the cars runs well and seems to idle perfectly. But I wonder the injectors could be leaking (a little bit) from all (or some of the injectors) such that the SA is forced to its lean limit.

Since it's just a little bit from all of the injectors, couldn't that cause this failure mode? It seems as though it could.

Maybe the opposite is happening; the injectors are cutting off a bit (due to age, dirt, etc), so it forces the SA to the other end of its limit (rich).

My point is that, so far, I haven't seen where any/all of the injectors were replaced. The ECU is $2200 retail, whereas the injectors are about $18 wholesale each (I think). I'm trying to get my friend to try this.
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  #23  
Old 04-10-2003, 09:54 PM
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as a good newbie, i did a search and it brought me to this thread (and a couple others). my girlfriend's cousin is flat out sick of her 1994 E420 because it just stalls at random. she even GAVE it to her kids (30 somethings) and they don't want it.

so, from what i gather, i should first clean the throttle body. worst case is that i need a new throttle body. the car only has 29,000 miles on it. in this post, it says that the computer was not properly calibrated from the factory. does this cause the car to stall or just run rich? i hear chip talk going on here. this seems like a far cheaper idea than a reflashed ecu. or can i give my ecu as a core and get a "corrected" ecu pretty cheap?

wouldn't a rich running car eat O2 sensors and converters like no tomorrow?

can i get an aftermarket maf that could be calibrated to adjust the rich condition? we ford guys have pro flow, i even have on on my SHO.

i am learning that all cars are fairly similar. being this mercedes E420 and my SHO are both pre-0B2 (pre 1996), we have a lot in common. on my SHO, erratic idle can be caused mainly by the idle air bypass valve. it's a mechanical spring loaded sensor that continuously adjusts idle for smooth operation. problem is that as it gets old, the spring gets out of whack which results in erratic idle and stalls. i know my gf's 1997 audi A4 has an IAB, does this mercedes?

does this stalling problem result in erratic idle (jostling 250 rpm or so until stall) or does the car just flat out stall. if the car dies out of nowhere, can it be the cam position sensor or the crankshaft position sensor?

i am very eager to hear your responses. i sure hope i can nab this car as my SHO now has nearly 123,000 miles on the clock. time for a new sled.

see ya,
Robby
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92 Ford Taurus SHO 5 speed
210.5 HP 196.4 LB Torque at the wheels
silver on gray with all options
ss y-pipe with high flow cats
SS UDPs
PRO M 80mm MAF
Walbro 190lph fuel pump
Tokico struts
Eibach springs
sho shop motor mounts
edelbrock RPM
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  #24  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:36 AM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
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Update to DTC 19 problem . . . .

Wow, this post was started in Nov 2000. Time goes by quickly when you're having fun!

The final resolution to this problem was the replacement of the fule computer's eprom with the newer version that contains the opened limits. They were changed from 0.85 and 1.15 to 0.68 and 1.32. Quite a difference.

Replacing the eprom has fixed EVERY car that had the dreaded DTC19 problem including all 'S' and 'E' class cars! I believe the count is something like 6 or 8 cars.

About 4 months ago, it even occured on my S500 (104K miles), so I replaced the eprom. S/A is running about 0.85.

If you're interested in permanent fix for the DTC 19 problem, send me email for the details.
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  #25  
Old 04-11-2003, 11:54 AM
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Re: Update to DTC 19 problem . . . .

awesome!

basically, what is involved? is it something a non mechanical person such as myself can replace? i do have friends that are very car capable though. where do i buy the eprom? how much is it? any reason to find a newer one from a junked MB (cheaper)?

hey, you aren't the guy with the MB ATI supercharged coupe?

Robby

Quote:
Originally posted by JimF
Wow, this post was started in Nov 2000. Time goes by quickly when you're having fun!

The final resolution to this problem was the replacement of the fule computer's eprom with the newer version that contains the opened limits. They were changed from 0.85 and 1.15 to 0.68 and 1.32. Quite a difference.

Replacing the eprom has fixed EVERY car that had the dreaded DTC19 problem including all 'S' and 'E' class cars! I believe the count is something like 6 or 8 cars.

About 4 months ago, it even occured on my S500 (104K miles), so I replaced the eprom. S/A is running about 0.85.

If you're interested in permanent fix for the DTC 19 problem, send me email for the details.
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92 Ford Taurus SHO 5 speed
210.5 HP 196.4 LB Torque at the wheels
silver on gray with all options
ss y-pipe with high flow cats
SS UDPs
PRO M 80mm MAF
Walbro 190lph fuel pump
Tokico struts
Eibach springs
sho shop motor mounts
edelbrock RPM
shonut aluminum sub frame bushings
26mm rear sway bar
sho shop sub frame connectors
Yokohama AVS ES100 225/55/ZR16 tires
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  #26  
Old 04-11-2003, 07:55 PM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
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Robby, check your email. . .

for a private reply.

Basically, you need to disassemble the fuel computer module and replace the internal eprom with the newer one that contains the enhanced limits. It's not that hard but worth the effort provided that the problem IS the DTC 19 code.
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2003, 10:23 PM
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wjm wjm is offline
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Jim,

Wow... unreal that this thread is still alive. It's been a while since I've popped my head in the forum.

You still burning chips for folks with the #19 error code? I have not done one in a while. I have not had the error since I reprogrammed my chip... works like a charm.

Hope you're doing well. I see your website has MANY additions since the last time I was on.

Willy

Still driving his 94 E420... have about 85k now.
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  #28  
Old 05-01-2003, 10:39 AM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
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Willy, glad to see you. . .

still kicking! Yes, it has been awhile.

My S500 turned 104k miles recently and it's doing fine although I have a interrmittant 'ticking' lifter.

The dreaded DTC19 happened to me at 102k. So replaced the eprom and it fixed the problem nicely. In fact, the chip has fixed ALL cars that had the problem, about 15 or so!

A few weeks ago, I replaced the O2 and MAF sensors. This changed self adaptation [went higher] and gas mileage to around 16mpg city. Have left the new eprom in.
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  #29  
Old 05-01-2003, 11:01 AM
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Re: Willy, glad to see you. . .

ticking? ouch. what happened? your engine has hydraulic valves, correct? makes finding/fixing the tick a PITA?

my SHO has solid actuated valves. if there's a tick, a shim is probably out of spec. replace it and be on your way.

is this common in MB V8s or am i just being neurotic?

Robby

Quote:
Originally posted by JimF
still kicking! Yes, it has been awhile.

My S500 turned 104k miles recently and it's doing fine although I have a interrmittant 'ticking' lifter.

The dreaded DTC19 happened to me at 102k. So replaced the eprom and it fixed the problem nicely. In fact, the chip has fixed ALL cars that had the problem, about 15 or so!

A few weeks ago, I replaced the O2 and MAF sensors. This changed self adaptation [went higher] and gas mileage to around 16mpg city. Have left the new eprom in.
__________________
92 Ford Taurus SHO 5 speed
210.5 HP 196.4 LB Torque at the wheels
silver on gray with all options
ss y-pipe with high flow cats
SS UDPs
PRO M 80mm MAF
Walbro 190lph fuel pump
Tokico struts
Eibach springs
sho shop motor mounts
edelbrock RPM
shonut aluminum sub frame bushings
26mm rear sway bar
sho shop sub frame connectors
Yokohama AVS ES100 225/55/ZR16 tires
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  #30  
Old 05-01-2003, 11:18 AM
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'94 S500: only 793 sold!
 
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Do a search on 'ticking' and. . .

you will find this post:

Tick, tick fixed tnx to Donnie!

The end of these oil tubes blow out and cause the lifters to loose oil supply. Had this happen to me as your read from the above post.

Now the tubes are fixed and it appears to be a worn lifter that needs replacing but I don't know which one! So, since it's intermittant, I live with it for now.

This is NOT a common problem as far as I know.

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Last edited by JimF; 05-01-2003 at 12:03 PM.
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