Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 08-30-2001, 06:48 PM
Large Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: top of 3rd
Posts: 185
had to chime in here...

Prob a stupid question, but could this also be the case for a 2.3-16???? I've got that same 'rakka rakka' noise that goes away immediately.

Is the check valve inside the filter housing or inside the oil pan (reading this post sort of describes both)?

Sorry for the ignorance, I'm just trying to abolish that confounded sound as well here!!! Any insight appreciated! Thanks.
__________________

Paul

'02 ML320 3rd row - wife's
'01 //S8 Alumi*****
'87 930 Sport Seats / LSD
'58 TR3A commuter

previous

'95 //S6 6gang
'87 190E 2.3-16
'88 ///M5
'98 ML320
'93 300E 2.8
'90 300E 3.0

http://blogs.europeancarweb.com/index.html (Sgt. Schultz)
http://randomstupidity.tumblr.com/
http://www.sfest.com/gallery/
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-30-2001, 10:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Bloomfield, Michigan
Posts: 203
1992 500SL makes this noise

Does this ONLY apply for when the car is cold? I seem to get the clacka clacka noise after I shut the car off, wait 15 minutes, then start the car again. I've reached through the driver's door, started the car, then stood at the front of the engine. The noise seems to come directly from each cam tower, right at the distributors on both sides. It goes on for a few seconds then goes away. The engine is running like a champ otherwise.

Could this relief valve be my problem or the check valve?

Thanks,

Satish
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-31-2001, 01:47 AM
Mark Stetson's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 262
You are the greatest, Dwight! Thanks for your help. I noticed a drop in my hot idle oil pressure yesterday - before then it was 1.5 bar in drive at idle (500rpm), then yesterday it went down to 1 bar. I was afraid it was associated with the pressure relief valve, since I'm still hearing a little racka-racka (about half a second, intermittently now). A half quart of oil (Mobil 1 15W50), however, brought the dipstick up to just over halfway, and brought the hot idle oil pressure back to 1.5 bar. My low oil level sender never came on - I think it only turns on when the oil is down a quart, right?.

BTW, this might sound stupid, but I have the hardest time getting accurate readings off that dipstick. I check it in the morning, cold, on level ground. I bought a new dipstick 'cause the old one had a cracked top and wouldn't seat right, but the oil level still varies on the stick depending on how long I leave it "dipped" after I wipe it. I leave it in ten seconds now, and that gives me a consistent reading. If I just "plunge and pull", it reads a lot lower. Am I doing it right?

Now that simply adding oil solved my hot idle low oil pressure, I'm a lot less scared, but I still think I'll ask my service guys to drop the pan and check the pressure relief valve next time I bring it in. Maybe they'll find the right parts!

Stummala - most of the racka-racka victims hear it only when cold. Mine did a racka-racka, however, one time only after a three hour sit. It scared me! Usually it takes more. The check valve is an easier deal - replace that first, I reckon, then keep going if you need to. Do a search here for more threads on this topic, in the Hot Rods forum as well as here in Tech Help.

Krasuskyp - The 119 engine in the 500E has both a check valve in the oil filter housing (accessible by pulling the oil filter housing) and a pressure relief valve in the oil pump housing (inside the oil pan). I assume that's the same for all 119 V8'S. The racka-racka that this thread addresses is caused, as I understand, by low oil pressure to the variable valve timing gear, which is located where Stummala describes his sound. Does your 2.3-16 have similar valve gear? Does that imply that Cosworth carried over a rare German design error?
__________________
Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-31-2001, 10:32 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Bloomfield, Michigan
Posts: 203
I'm almost certain that mine is due to the cam advancers not getting enough oil pressure on startup causing the rattle. I HIGHLY doubt the timing chain or tensioner.

Dwight, did yours make the clacka sound ONLY on cold startups?

I get this on warm starts as well...

Also, which valve should I replace? The oil filter housing valve or the one in the oil pan next to the oil pump?

Satish
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-31-2001, 10:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Bloomfield, Michigan
Posts: 203
Lifter noise update

Also, does anyone know the part numbers to the O-Ring updated oil lines in the valvetrain area to reduce the lifter noise?

Satish
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-31-2001, 10:55 AM
Large Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: top of 3rd
Posts: 185
rakka rakka rakka

Mark-

1st, kudos to you for coining that phrase to describe the sound... that is exactly it!

Anyway, I unfortunately do not know if I've got a variable cam gear. I don't think so. But the sound seems as if it is a result of the chain tensioner losing pressure. The funny part is that it happens very intermittently. Sometimes happens hot. Sometimes cold. Sometimes never. Bizarre.

I'm prob a bit at fault here. As much as I HATE to admit this and you all will prob send a lynch mob after me, I run regular 10/40 and have changes done at (gasp!) Firestone (I watch them like a hawk, but they're VERY reasonable and have provided great service for oil changes... hey, I do 22k / yr!). I mention this as maybe the filter they get from Napa, etc., does not possess the correct attributes (the check valve is in the HOUSING, not the filter though, right?)??? I used to run diesel oil in my ///M5, 15/50HD I believe, maybe I'd benefit from this as well?

Any thoughts (besides not going to Firestone for oil changes!!!). Thanks.
__________________

Paul

'02 ML320 3rd row - wife's
'01 //S8 Alumi*****
'87 930 Sport Seats / LSD
'58 TR3A commuter

previous

'95 //S6 6gang
'87 190E 2.3-16
'88 ///M5
'98 ML320
'93 300E 2.8
'90 300E 3.0

http://blogs.europeancarweb.com/index.html (Sgt. Schultz)
http://randomstupidity.tumblr.com/
http://www.sfest.com/gallery/
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-31-2001, 12:43 PM
Mark Stetson's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 262
I think it's Dwight Hinton to whom we owe the blame for coining this phrase. I can't take credit. I'm not a mechanic, just a happy and interested owner who's looking after his car. Therefore, my experiences are only relevant to the models I've owned - 300E's and my newly-beloved 500E. The racka-racka is specific to the 500E's 119 V8 - no indications on either my wife's '93 300TE or the '89 300E we traded for it. Having said that - my racka-racka was first diagnosed as a loose timing chain, which made sense at 104K miles. I had it replaced, with the usual tensioner and rails, but the noise was still there. That's when I started following this thread so closely. In fact, next having replaced the check valve in the oil filter housing, I still hear the noise infrequently - like when I skip a day driving the car (stone cold and plenty of time to leak back through the check valve). So I'm thinking of having the pan dropped next time and the relief valve serviced/replaced, like Dwight did.

Krasuskyp - The check valve in the 119 V8 engine is a large-ish spring plunger mechanism (1"+ bore) that is in the oil filter housing (the base to which the cover is screwed). It's not part of the oil filter cartridge. And I can't imagine a company MORE concerned about their reputation right now than Firestone! I'll bet they do just fine. Whatever it takes, so long as you change your oil often. I use the EZ Lube down the street for my Tahoe - they use Mobil 1 too. I just don't expect them to stock the oil filter for my MB's. They say they will happily install a filter if I bring it in. Maybe Firestone will do likewise for you! Just watch to make sure they don't bugger the threads.

So I think I'm on the proper path for my V8:

1 - Replace the timing chain, tensioner, and rails, as a preventive maintenance on high mileage engines.

2 - If the racka-racka keeps racketing, replace the check valve in the oil filter housing - there is a design upgrade that makes for a more reliable seal. It's cheaper than attending to the oil pump pressure relief valve. Dwight gives the info for this back up this thread.

3rd - If there's still a racket, or you just can't stop yourself from trying to keep your car perfect, replace the pressure relief valve at the oil pump. This requires dropping the pan.

I don't know that it's a given that all 3 steps will always be required. I've done the first two so far and most of the noise is gone. Dwight went to the third step and his noise is finally gone (hope it STAYS gone Dwight!)

This is a summary of actions on this thread and prior threads - read back up this one and search for others. The CD-ROM manual shows diagrams of the parts and assemblies, which are referenced more than once in these threads. May all our engines be quiet one day!
__________________
Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-31-2001, 01:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Matthews, NC, USA
Posts: 133
Stummula,

Mine did it on cold start only. Typically at least 6-8 hours of cool down time, but most often it required entire overnight cool down.

As Mark pointed out, I would do the Oil FIlter Checkvalve first, its a $15 part and is relatively straight forward.

The Oil pump relief valve is a +/- $60 part. While I have been able to remove & clean my old part and reinstall, I have not yet discovered how to install the new update part.

Also, I assumed you were reffering to the the valve train update of Technical bulletin AF05.00-U-1300AG and refers to a part number of 119.180.02.66. In comparing photos and the CD Rom drawings, I noted that this refers to an "oil bridge connector" which appears to be a metallic "bridge cover" part.

As I am not a certified mechanic either and can only refer to the documents I have obtained through the guys here, I would recommend that you confirm this with the parts guys at MBSHOP. They can give you part numbers and provide the parts too. I did notice that Donnie (Benzmac) commented in this thread on this upgrade. I can only surmize that the "bridge connectors" are "oil tubes" and that they have o-rings inside them. The above service bulletin number should be the correct one. I have a printed "faxable" copy if you need it. However, I gather that this applies to more of a lifter type noise and less to a "racka racka" noise.

As for the origin of the word "racka -racka", I am not certain where it began, but unfortunately I suffer endlessly from use of the phrase with my mechanic friends. I called them in pun, to ask "what does it mean when your lawnmower goes "racka-racka" and smoke billows out, when they finally quit laughing (about an hour later) they simply replied its time to get a new lawn mower! "Well, even I knew that!. Now the mower has been modified with a slightly larger engine and different pulley sizes to affect blade rotation speeds. The stock tires do have a traction limitation now even on pavement, but the thought of adding ASR seems a bit overkill. My neighbors tease me about mowing the grass with a stop watch, but its all in good humor.

Sorry for rambling, hope this helps.

Crash
__________________
dwight
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-31-2001, 01:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Bloomfield, Michigan
Posts: 203
oil pressure relief valve

Is there any chance that you had the wrong part? How come the shaft was 27mm rather than 24mm? I'm considering just replacing both items, the pressure relief valve and check valve. Both are easy anyhow, it only takes 2 minutes to pull off the oil pan with an air ratchet and a 5mm allen head.

-Satish
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-31-2001, 04:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Matthews, NC, USA
Posts: 133
Satish,

I am currently negotiating with the local dealership to detemine whether the part is correct as supplied. They are ordering a second part to compare it to.

You are right, I would do both at the same time, as it also saves draining the oil a second time.

Time will tell.

Dwight
__________________
dwight
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 09-30-2001, 03:56 PM
mplafleur's Avatar
User Friendly
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lathrup Village, Michigan
Posts: 2,939
Mark,

If you are still watching this thread...

The dipstick in my M103 engine does NOT protrude from the end of the tube when fully inserted. If yours is the same (and I would expect they all are), then if the dipstick is inserted quickly and pulled right back out, the pressure developed by the air and dipstick may force some oil back out of the tube. I would not expect much, but enough maybe to give you a lower reading. It is advisable to leave the dipstick in the oil for several seconds to allow the oil level to come up the same as the pan before removing.
__________________
Michael LaFleur

'05 E320 CDI - 86,000 miles
'86 300SDL - 360,000 miles
'85 300SD - 150,000 miles (sold)
'89 190D - 120,000 miles (sold)
'85 300SD - 317,000 miles (sold)
'98 ML320 - 270,000 miles (sold)
'75 300D - 170,000 miles (sold)
'83 Harley Davidson FLTC (Broken again) :-(
'61 Plymouth Valiant - 60k mikes
2004 Papillon (Oliver)
2005 Tzitzu (Griffon)
2009 Welsh Corgi (Buba)

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-01-2001, 05:33 PM
Mark Stetson's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 262
Michael - thanks for that. It makes sense with thick cold oil and the narrow dipstick tube. My practical experience taught me that as well. I leave it dipped for about 20 seconds now rather than 10 before I read it. I'm a few hundred miles away from mky next oil change. I'm planning to have the pan dropped and the pressure relief valve serviced then. I also suspect that the synthetic oil used for my last oil change was 0W40 (dealer fill from oil supply for new cars) rather than 15W50. I'm thinking that may be part of the reason for my recently-reduced idle oil pressure.
__________________
Mark Stetson
1995 E320 Wagon Moonstone Grey/Parchment 106K mi.
2007 E63 AMG Graphite/designo 75K mi
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-04-2001, 07:48 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Matthews, NC, USA
Posts: 133
Just thought I would update everyone.

Mercedes Benz NA 800 number (Hanora) has no explaination as to why the oil pump relief valve will not fit my oil pump.

Neither does the Charlotte Dealership.

Since they would be unable to return the oil pump once they opened it up to determine if the relief valve would fit, they refused to do so.

The only solution (per Mercedes) is to replace the oil pump in my car ($268 for the part).

If it works, that would be a relatively inexpensive cure. But they would not guarantee that replacement of the oil pump would solve the problem.

In the interim 2 weeks, the noise has again dissappeared.

I have considered just buying the oil pump and keeping it in the trunk as some sort of voodoo protection to keep the racka-racka monster away...but not yet.
__________________
dwight
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-04-2001, 08:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: West Bloomfield, Michigan
Posts: 203
Dwight,

Did you already replace the oil filter relief valve in the oil filter housing? THAT is the most common cause (over 80%) for the cam advancer rattles. Not the oil pump valve in the oil pan.

Satish
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-04-2001, 12:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Posts: 2,632
Satish- other than oil filter relief valve kit, what other parts (washers, o-rings, bolts, etc.) do you recommend replacing or having on stand-by when you do this replacement/upgrade?

Thanks,
:-) neil

PS: can you email back the 500SL specifc parts to do the Winter/Summer transmission switch?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
67 250se coupe cold start solenoid grezm0nkey Vintage Mercedes 2 01-17-2005 09:59 AM
cold start hell GDJ Tech Help 0 01-08-2004 08:05 PM
380SE - High fuel consumption : Diagnosing the Cold Start Valve amit Tech Help 3 01-24-2003 07:29 PM
500E cold start racka racka's return dwight hinton Tech Help 2 07-02-2002 07:05 PM
Mercedes 500E : The 4-door Porsche Jim_Crews Mercedes Used Parts For Sale & Wanted 2 01-14-2002 11:49 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page