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  #1  
Old 06-28-2001, 10:41 AM
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Location: Matthews, NC, USA
Posts: 133
Please help.

After a complete top end overhaul, new timing chains, tensioner, rails, water pump & thermostat, oil pump chain, shifter bushings, first gear start mod, reseal tranny, new coolant hoses, distributor caps, rotor buttons, and more, we are back on the road again.

However, the dreaded racka-racka on cold start up is still there. Car runs like a charm! BUT.. When you first crank it from a cold start first thing in the morning, with the hood up and standing in the open door as you reach in and crank the car... There it is... blatant as can be for 1 full second...RACKA - RACKA and then its gone for the rest of the day.

We have replaced the tensioner again, still its there.

WHAT CAN THIS BE????

Could this be a lifter???
We did not replace the lifters with new ones.
How can we test/investigate to determine if it is a lifter?


A secondary issue, but still puzzling, the brakes continue to periodically have a faint resonant roar at highway speeds. When you lightly tap the brake pedal the sound increases considerably and then disappears. Could this be a sticking piston in the caliper? Dust build up in the caliper? The person that sold me the car mentioned that occasionally a vibration would develop (I wonder did he mean a faint roar?) and at that time, the pads should be removed, the calipers cleaned, & the pads simply reinstalled


THANKS FOR ANY GUIDANCE

Dwight



[Edited by dwight hinton on 06-28-2001 at 09:52 AM]
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  #2  
Old 06-28-2001, 12:49 PM
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Location: Youngstown, OH
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I have two questions:
What weight oil do you use? If you use too heavy of an oil weight it may take longer for pressure to rise or oil to circulate.

What brand oil filter do you use? I switched from a non-OEM brand once and had the same noise you describe. The MBZ filter spring "shut" when oil pressure drops (when you turn off the motor) to keep the filter filled with oil so pressure and oil supply is available sooner to the motor

I don't know if their related but it was just a thought

Intruder
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  #3  
Old 06-28-2001, 03:17 PM
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What oil weight should be run? 20W-50 for warm climates? How about straight 40WT or 50WT?
Thanks,
:-) neil
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  #4  
Old 06-29-2001, 04:20 PM
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Location: Matthews, NC, USA
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I run 20/50 in summer and 10/40 in winter Castrol.

We currently have 15/40 in the car as a 500 mile break in oil. Since I am almost at 500 miles, I will be switching back to 20/50 shortly.

As for oil filters, I only use Mann (German) oil filters.

Thanks for the input.

DWight
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  #5  
Old 06-30-2001, 09:10 AM
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As an update, the local MB sources indicate that lifters make a tick-tick sound that gradually disappears. I am reasonably familiar with lifter sounds from my wife's minivan adventures. The concensus is that the sound is not lifters as it is a distinct racka-racka and immediately disappears.

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  #6  
Old 06-30-2001, 06:22 PM
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I'm having the same issue with my '85 380SE. The timing chains, etc... were replaced in December and I've started noticing the familiar sound described above (chain slap) the past few months (althought it may have been going on unnoticed from day one...doubtful though.) Anyone else have thoughts on this?
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  #7  
Old 06-30-2001, 10:24 PM
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I run 5W30 synthetic all the time, but it rarely gets above 30 degrees C here for very long. My '88 'vette used 5W30 all the time as recommended by GM.

What brand of oil filter are you using?
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  #8  
Old 06-30-2001, 11:21 PM
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Location: Suwanee, GA, USA
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There is an updated check valve located inside the oil filter housing that holds oil into the top of the engine and into the oil filter housing when not running. The new valve has longer fingers to hold it centered over the sealing surface. I have replaced a few of these and it solved many problems with cold noises.

I have found two sources of the noises. One is the chain tensioiner and the other is the cam advancers. IF they are not under oil pressure, they will rattle.

The valve mod is in the SI bulletins. I forget the number....

Also, the oil tubes that are between the cams have been updated with new O-rings. This is the cause of unwanted lifter noise in most cases.
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  #9  
Old 07-03-2001, 08:28 AM
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Donnie,

THanks for the guidance. We will pursue and update later.
Thanks again for all your help. This place is GRRREATTT.

Dwight
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  #10  
Old 08-12-2001, 03:43 PM
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Thanks primarily to Dwight Hinton's advice, my startup clatter has been fixed. My local dealer is Mercedes Benz of South Bay. Large as it is, they had no knowledge of the service bulletin that Dwight references on the "500E owner Roll Call" thread. Nevertheless, they were inquisitive and responsive, and when I brought my car in, along with printed diagrams of the oil filter housing showing the check valve, the notes from Dwight regarding the check valve upgrade, and basically a diagnosis and solution path for them to follow, they got right on board.

Note the same dealer replaced the timing chain a few thousand miles before. They were unable to get a copy of the service bulletin (which they described as an internal document and were mildly surprised that I had the number for them). Nevertheless, when they pulled the oil filter housing, they found the old style check valve, and had the newer-style part in stock. Result: start-up clatter is GONE, and lifter noise when cold is GREATLY REDUCED. It cost me about 315 bucks.

Thank you all! I love this place!!!
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  #11  
Old 08-13-2001, 04:48 PM
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While I would like to take credit, I was just sharing info obtained either directly or through guidance from the guys here. Are these guys great or what?

Glad it was of help

Dwight
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  #12  
Old 08-13-2001, 10:12 PM
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You guys are welcome....That is why this site survives!!!! I share, we share, it's all good!

Thanks Brotherton and DOC toooooo....
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  #13  
Old 08-29-2001, 05:27 PM
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At long last, the Racka Racka is gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The oil pump check valve was it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GUYS, YOU ARE THE GREATEST!!!!!!!!!!!

After having attempted all the above items in my previous post that I have mentioned, we finally found time to attempt the last item (i.e. replacement of the oil pump checkvalve).

While the replacement part provided by the dealer does not fit (the new part is some 27 mm diameter and the hole from which the old part comes out is only 24 mm diameter), we did take the opportunity to remove all the internal parts, the outer screw, the plunger, the spring, and the most internal part the metal bushing, and clean all the above prior to reinstalling them.

I must say we were disappointed spending 2 hours to cool the car down, remove the dust cover, the lower oil pan, then the oil pump check valve only to discover that the part doesn't fit. So we cleaned up the old parts, reinstalled them, and made plans to return the incorrect parts the next day.

However, I was pleasantly pleased the next morning when the racka-racka sound was not there. It has never returned since.

Steve & Donnie & all the others. I can't say thanks enough.

Dwight
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2001, 01:29 AM
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Dwight,

Is the valve in the oil pump housing a check valve, or a pressure relief valve? Does it sit in the engine block right behind the check valve in the oil filter housing? (The mechanic who replaced the oil filter check valve on my car said he saw another one in the engine right behind the oil filter housing, after he removed the oil filter housing from the engine. It made me wonder if it was accessible from outside the engine block.)

How did it affect your oil pressure? Does your car idle with more pressure now when it's hot?
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2001, 03:04 PM
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AS to the oil pressure levels, I have not noticed any difference, but then I did not document levels prior to the procedures.

As to the location of the oil filter checkvalve vs. the oil pump relief valve, when I return to my office, I will scan in the diagrams for both and e-mail them to you.

I am still confused about the part that the dealer supplied and why it would not fit my car. I will post a detailed question with the appropriate part numbers etc. when I get a chance.

If you have access to the CD's, try the following:

Oil Filter Check Valve Replacement is Procedure 18-1120
RA18.1323-1100 pages 1-6
(Bulletin AF05.20-P-1400EG)
and my engine no. 119.974.12 required part no. 119.184.01.30
and we also replaced a rubber seal part no. 116.187.00.55
which is inside the adjacent hex headed screw/cap.


Oil Pump Relief Valve
Procedure Number:18-2150
Part Number:119.18.000.15
(as this part is 27mm dia. & the hole is only 24 mm
diameter...it does not fit my pump number 119.186.02.01
(unless there is a rear (passenger side access pointl??)
(I understand that my oil pump part no. that I looked at is
likely a casting or subassembly part number and that the
the listed part no. for 92-94 oil pumps is 119.180.09.01)

The dealer gave me a diagram which shows more detail than the CD's and the above cited procedures will identify.

I will note my oil pressures, hot and cold & at various RPM's and let you know.

Hope this helps.

Dwight
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