Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-17-2001, 01:38 AM
1983 240d
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Lightbulb Engine Swap

I need more power in my 1983 240D. Is there anyone who knows of an inexpensive engine swap I could do? I don't have any preference whether it is diesel or not, but figured it would be cheaper to stick with diesel. I would like to spend less then $5k on it. If it is possible to swap for a gas engine, how much power could I expect to be able to put into it? (560 S class engine? I hope!!!)

Thanks
-Ryan Sturm
(Member since today!!!!!!!)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-17-2001, 07:37 AM
LarryBible
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The 240D is a car that was designed to be a reliable, comfortable and economical form of transportation. They are so solid that they feel like they're cast in one piece. But, they are not by any stretch of the imagination a great handling performance car.

If you want to spend time and money on an engine swap, I totally understand that urge, I've done a few in my life and they were not done out of practicality, but for the challenge of doing them. But, you can find jillions of cars better suited to such reengineering.

To begin with, due to several elements of the engine compartment, such as the steering box and the sway bar along the firewall, this would not be a very easy car to do an engine swap.

Second of all the rear axle and jack shafts were designed to handle no more than a little under 200 horsepower. That's what the six cylinder gas engine used in the 123 developed.

There are a few DOHC gas six cylinder 123's around that would give you a more powerful car if you're stuck on the 123.

My point is that these cars are GREAT for what they were intended, but you can come up with so many OTHER great cars, MB's included, for an engine swap that will give you a much more fun car to drive, probably with less time and money spent on them.

With that said, if you are still bent on this project, look through some old posts here for some information on a 4.X litre Chevy V6 into a 123 wagon. There is much detail offered including some good photographs. The gentlemen that did the swap apparently did an excellent job. I don't know if you have done such work before, if you have, I'm sure you know that you will need several additional skills beyond normal car maintenance and repair, including good welding skills/equipment.

Best of luck and keep us posted on your progress,
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-17-2001, 12:51 PM
1983 240d
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by LarryBible

With that said, if you are still bent on this project, look through some old posts here for some information on a 4.X litre Chevy V6 into a 123 wagon. There is much detail offered including some good photographs. The gentlemen that did the swap apparently did an excellent job. I don't know if you have done such work before, if you have, I'm sure you know that you will need several additional skills beyond normal car maintenance and repair, including good welding skills/equipment.

[/B]
I saw an older 300SEL (60's) with what looked like a chevy small block in it... the only problem i have with that is I would lose the whole fact of reliability in the car... as you can surely tell me, 240's are mileage cars, as yours has 533k miles on it. I would love to fit it with a 280E engine, but with little experience, i dont know all I would need to change. I would love to put a 200hp engine in it, but the weight of the car would probably kill the "speedy" aspect of that.... anyway i am about to look for the old postings and will keep up with questions.... Thanks for the quick reply
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-17-2001, 02:05 PM
LarryBible
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
The 123 is a very light car. It weighs little, if any, more than a Camaro.

When you swap ANY engine into the car, MB or otherwise, the statistical reliability is going to suffer from the engine change. Engine swaps involve adapting this and fabricating that with only one chance to test and engineer that piece correctly. With production automobiles, every piece is tested and worked out before the car is put in production. You can bet that there were problems of some sort with the prototype. Any engine swap must be considered as the prototype. The only way you can maintain good statistical reliability is leave the car as engineered and built.

Best of luck,
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-18-2001, 05:20 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Austin, Houston
Posts: 18
diesel swap

Correct me if I'm wrong but I would imagine a diesel swap would
be just about one of the hardest things to do, you would have to change out the fuel system and add an ignition system. Speaking of the small block chevy swap, my friend did one on a volvo 240, the car had 500hp, but he had a full garage and machine shop on his hands, and it still took him nearly a year.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-18-2001, 06:55 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Fairfax County, Virginia
Posts: 856
83 240D,

Tell us something about the car if it is for sale ...

George
__________________
George Stephenson
1991 350 SDL (200K and she ain't bent, yet)
former 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon - good car
former 1985 300 CD - great car
former 1981 300 TD - good car
former 1972 280 SEL - not so good car
a couple of those diesel Rabbits ...40-45 mpg
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-18-2001, 10:36 PM
1983 240d
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Here is my "standard" text:

1983 Mercedes Benz 240D
-190,225 Miles
-Silver Exterior, Blue Leather Interior
-Automatic
-Air Conditioning
-Sunroof
-Power Windows
-Power Door Locks
-Cruise Control
-Cassette Player
-CD Player
-4 Cylinder Diesel
-$7,500 OBO
Ryan Sturm
Baltimore, MD area
E-mail prsbirds@home.com
Cell 443-562-2551
Leave Message
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-20-2001, 08:09 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,753
Ryan,

You can get an entire car with a more powerful engine for the $5K you're willing to spend on a swap. Try an 81-85 300SD for size if you want to stick with a Diesel. An 82-85 300D will have the same turbodiesel engine as the 300SD in the same body as your 240D.

If your 240D is so well kept that it warrants $7500, you might be a little disappointed with the 300s you can get for $5000. They'll be excellent commuters, but they will have signs of being almost 20 years old.

Sixto
91 300SE
81 300SD
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-23-2001, 03:30 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Battle Ground, WA
Posts: 576
4.3 Liter V6 swap into 123...

Hi there,
I'm the guy that did the 4.3L swap into my 123 chassis. (1982 300D) It took me about two months of evenings and weekends to perform the swap, as I wanted to end up with a clean installation, and it cost just under $1K... However, I shopped for bargains and got lucky by acquiring a 1992 Astrovan engine for only $125, including the engine wiring harness and computer. The T700R4 transmission was $450, and the fuel pump was over $75. I didn't have to do any cutting of the chassis, but used a 10 ton hydraulic jack to spread the tunnel by about 2 1/2 inches to give the transmission room to reside in. It took some time to fabricate the motor mount brackets and exhaust. I have put about 8K miles on the finished product now, with no problems of any kind. It gets about 21 mpg around town, go to work driving. On the highway it will give around 28 mpg, cruising at 80mph with the air conditioning on and with 4 people in the car. It has much more performance than the diesel, is much quieter, more fun to drive, and I believe it will be more reliable and less costly to own than the diesel engine was - the 4.3L V6 was used in pickup trucks and vans, and is a very reliable engine, having been derived from the 350 ci chevrolet engine. (The 4.3L V6 is just a 350 with 2 cylinders cut off to make a V6) With the overdrive transmission and lockup torque converter, the car is able to cruise at high speeds with low engine rpms. You can view my web page on the car at: http://pages.prodigy.net/rwooldridge/mercedes.htm

Feel free to ask questions!

Richard Wooldridge, retired IBM Field Engineer
'82 300D/4.3L V6
'85 GMC S15 pickup
'89 Astrovan
'94 Ford Taurus
'77 XJ6L Jag
'77 280Z 2+2
'69 Clark Cortez motorhome with Olds 455 Toronado conversion
There are more, but space prohibits....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-23-2001, 10:33 AM
1983 240d
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
VERY cool... yes that is definately the car I saw, but i dont know where because it wasnt your page (i dont think). Thanks so much for that, you did a beautiful job with it... i am very impressed. It also looks very similar to the original diesel powerplant, so the originality is not totally lost. Just the agonizingly slow accelleration... but im sure you wont miss that....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-23-2001, 12:22 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 6,844
If you would like a more conservative conversion, I have a 1983 300SD engine and trans (still in car) that we rebuilt 3 years ago. Both were totally rebuilt the engine getting bored with new pistons. (Total cost in rural Gainesville was near 7k). I'd sell both for $3k. (I'd throw in the car [bg])
__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-23-2001, 01:33 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Changing to a 300D is almost a no-brainer, just need to change the engine, rad, location of tranny mount and driveshaft (if it is similar to the 115s). Motor mounts are the same, and in the same place, wiring is the same, so are injection pump connections, etc.

Anything else could be a huge pain.

And any motor derived from a Chevy 350 will not last anything like any engine from MB -- the Chevy smallblock was (as is) a cheap engine made understrengh, designed in 1953 -- very short piston skirts, undersized crank (also usually off and crooked), very light weight and thin cylider walls, tiny bearings, etc. Good for one rebuild at 100,000 miles and then junk unless you spend a fortune remanufacturing it or get lucky and get a non-defective one from the factory. Some will run forever (my work van has 282,000 on it!), but most will throw a rod somewhere in the vicinity of 130,000.

Horsepower output for displacement is very small, and if you crank up the very low horsepower, it goes faster, even the 4-bolt main truck engines.

I'd go for a 300E motor if I was going to put a gas engine it in -- the electronics are fairly simple.

Otherwise, if you want a sports car, buy one -- you are never going to get that 240 to drive like a BMW 318i, anyway! Save the 240 for what it does best -- good reliable inexpensive daily transportation, and buy a sports car for blasting down twisty roads and stoplight drags.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-23-2001, 02:37 PM
1983 240d
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
haha... thanks... actually its funny that you mention that because i found a (potential) buyer for the benz and it is going to be left at my mechanics tonight to have him check it out and make it completely "sellable". I am thinking about moving to an Audi A4 1.8T quattro, with a stick (for extra fun) or a tiptronic. If I can sell the benz, i think this is the best choice for me... according to where I am going to be living next year for college, but the benz is a car I have loved since before I was born, and my first ride in it was my first day alive, so I cannot complain about that. However with the changing times, the benz is just too slow, and too bad in the snow for my needs. If the buyer backs down and doesnt want it, I will definately consider a 300E engine in it, though. THanks for the reply.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-23-2001, 06:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Yeah, I was quite surprised by the horrible traction problems with both my diesels the first year I had them -- the Volvo will easily spin the tires even on wet roads, let alone ice or snow. I've gotten it stuck several times, once nearly dropped it off the side of a steep hill into a forest when someone convinced me to try one more time!

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-24-2001, 12:59 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Old Lyme, Connecticut
Posts: 3,596
Hey guys, I am surprised to hear you have difficulty in snow with the W123 Diesels. I have driven my 1971 (W115) 220D and 1975 (W115) and 1982 240D's all over the Northeast, and up to Alaska and back. I also ski with my family quite a bit, and have never had anything but great experiences in snow and ice with these cars.

They all had/have manual transmissions, which may have something to do with the results I have had, and I always use 4 season Michelin "H" rated tires (195/70HR-14 MXV's presently and for the last 6 years or more) which may also help. But I can say I have never been stuck so I could not get out, and I have passed or crawled around other cars in snow and ice storms that have closed roads.

I did learn in Alaska that you put the clutch in before you lift the accelerator, as the rear wheels will lose traction and run at idle speed almost instantly in really icy conditions going downhill due to the compression braking of the engine. The effect is a lot like applying the emergency brake, and the rear end will quickly pass the front end. Other than that, I have only great things to say about the car in snow or ice, or rain or any combination of them.

Jim
__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine Swap.... TurboDawgs Diesel Discussion 7 12-05-2004 03:47 PM
keep engine or swap for a 5.0??? HELP craiggotgame Tech Help 17 11-10-2004 02:56 PM
240 Engine Swap Time Estimate silverfishk8 Diesel Discussion 6 09-28-2003 03:49 PM
Ponton engine swap - Options and opinions vrsmith Vintage Mercedes 15 04-22-2003 02:02 AM
300D Engine swap Lars Diesel Discussion 5 04-01-2003 02:26 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page