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  #1  
Old 01-29-2015, 08:16 AM
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Question w201 brake upgrade to 400E brakes

Just found a 400E at the junk yard. Gonna take the brakes off and put them on my 190E. Question: do I need to replace the rotors too or can I keep my stock rotors. Reason is because I just changed my brakes and rotors 2 weeks ago. Thanks.

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Old 01-29-2015, 12:34 PM
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I am pretty sure you will need to change the rotors and pads.

You might also need to grind some metal on the ball joint area of the control arm.

Here are some pics of my 190E with its E420/SL600 braking setup:
http://imgur.com/a/KNXzx
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  #3  
Old 01-29-2015, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsmalley View Post
Just found a 400E at the junk yard. Gonna take the brakes off and put them on my 190E. Question: do I need to replace the rotors too or can I keep my stock rotors. Reason is because I just changed my brakes and rotors 2 weeks ago. Thanks.
Why? All you are doing is adding unsprung weight. The OE brakes on my 190E 2.6 five-speed worked fine hot lapping race tracks, even with Repro Deluxe pads, which weren't as effective as the OE pads, but the OE pads were dirty, noisy, and wore rapidly, which is why I made the pad change.

Duke
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Old 01-29-2015, 02:27 PM
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The PO of my Sportline installed E420 brakes and I put 2.6 brakes on my 190D, the E420 brakes are awesome but the 2.6 brakes are adequate for normal driving.
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Old 01-29-2015, 05:28 PM
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What I'd suggest is grab them and install them next time you need brake service
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2015, 05:58 PM
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You need to use the correct rotors (the 400E had at least two different types); you have to modify the dust shield and you have to run 16" rims to clear. Yes, the 400E had 15" wheels similar to the W201, but the wheel profile is different from the W201.
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Old 01-29-2015, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke2.6 View Post
Why? All you are doing is adding unsprung weight. The OE brakes on my 190E 2.6 five-speed worked fine hot lapping race tracks, even with Repro Deluxe pads, which weren't as effective as the OE pads, but the OE pads were dirty, noisy, and wore rapidly, which is why I made the pad change.

Duke
The 262mm brakes on the 190e are marginal at best especially when it comes to fade resistance. Even the 284mm 16v/300e brakes make a noticible improvement. Also if you're worried about unsprung weight just ditch the dush shield because thats the weight difference we're talking about here.
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Old 01-30-2015, 12:57 AM
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Thanks everyone. Went back to the junk yard today and was able to get both calipers and the rotors. Everything was rusted to hell and back but I got the rotors resurfaced and I cleaned up the calipers. I'll get new pads when I get ready to install them. Here are some photos.
Attached Thumbnails
w201 brake upgrade to 400E brakes-img_20150129_190704.jpg   w201 brake upgrade to 400E brakes-img_20150129_204242.jpg   w201 brake upgrade to 400E brakes-img_20150129_202353.jpg  
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2015, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
The 262mm brakes on the 190e are marginal at best especially when it comes to fade resistance. Even the 284mm 16v/300e brakes make a noticible improvement. Also if you're worried about unsprung weight just ditch the dush shield because thats the weight difference we're talking about here.
Excellent information
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Old 01-30-2015, 03:47 PM
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Anyone on this thread ever spent a day hot lapping a big race track with a stock 190E 2.6? I did - a day at the big Willow Springs 2.5 mile track in Southern California, and the brakes, even with the Repro pads were excellent.

I did not take it back, but not because of the brakes. The gearing is not well set up for the track and the suspension is too soft for the 80 and 100 MPH sweepers, which were somewhat bumpy at the time.

My Cosworth Vega and MR2 are much better suited for the track, and I didn't want to spend the time and money it would take to make the 2.6 fully track competent and probably screw up its comfort on normal roads.

It was much better at Firebird Raceway during 1992 Starfest, but that's a much slower speed track with mostly slow speed corners, which puts a premium on brakes, and, again, no problem with the OE brakes and Repco Deluxe pads.

So who has ever experienced brake fade on a 190E 2.6? And, BTW, 300E front brakes or anything else with larger/thicker rotors and larger calipers is going to add a lot more weight than can be conspensated by removing the sheet metal splash shields.

Duke
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Old 01-30-2015, 04:09 PM
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My dad roasted and warped 2 sets of 262mm rotors in a couple of years on his 190e before I gave him the 284mm brakes that came with my 300d. The 300d now has the 295mm 4 pots I had on my old 190e. Also theres far less pedal travel and less squishiness with the 4 piston calipers. Something to consider if you track your car.

If Mercedes thought 262mm brakes were so great they wouldn't have put 284mm brakes on the 190e 2.3-16.
https://i.imgur.com/8wp2PVs.jpg
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  #12  
Old 01-30-2015, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
... Also theres far less pedal travel and less squishiness with the 4 piston calipers. Something to consider if you track your car.

If Mercedes thought 262mm brakes were so great they wouldn't have put 284mm brakes on the 190e 2.3-16.
https://i.imgur.com/8wp2PVs.jpg
I bet most of that squishiness comes from that floating saddle design
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



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  #13  
Old 01-30-2015, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
My dad roasted and warped 2 sets of 262mm rotors in a couple of years on his 190e before I gave him the 284mm brakes that came with my 300d. The 300d now has the 295mm 4 pots I had on my old 190e. Also theres far less pedal travel and less squishiness with the 4 piston calipers. Something to consider if you track your car.

If Mercedes thought 262mm brakes were so great they wouldn't have put 284mm brakes on the 190e 2.3-16 from the factory.
https://i.imgur.com/8wp2PVs.jpg
I think I'm in the same boat. My last set of rotors (Balo) were warped after 33K miles. I am somewhat sure my current set (Brembro) are starting to warp too.

I think I've got an extra set of E420 front calipers in my toolbox too.

Did you upgrade the 300D's master/booster? Your dad's 300D is the earlier 300D. I wonder if they changed to a different master/booster for the 300D 2.5 (mine)..
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82 300SD 145k
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
I think I'm in the same boat. My last set of rotors (Balo) were warped after 33K miles. I am somewhat sure my current set (Brembro) are starting to warp too.

I think I've got an extra set of E420 front calipers in my toolbox too.

Did you upgrade the 300D's master/booster? Your dad's 300D is the earlier 300D. I wonder if they changed to a different master/booster for the 300D 2.5 (mine)..
I did install a 25/19mm 400e master cyl on my old 190e when it had the 400e front brakes on it and honestly didn't notice a much difference with it. The 300d still has its stock 23/19 master cyl and brake booster and I quite like it as is. The brake pedal is solid. I can modulate the brakes with small changes in pressure rather than large movements in the pedal. Brake response is instant, good for emergency situations. I guess I just prefer less pedal travel, its personal preferance. Right now the 300d has 295mm front brakes off a 400e and 290mm rears off a W210. The heavy 400e (3700LB) was prone to warping the 295x22mm rotos so they went to 294x25mm on the E320/E420. Something to keep in mind although I haven't run into that problem yet with the 295mm.

I'm pretty sure your 2.5 should have the same 23/19mm master cyl as my 87 300d and all 300e up to 1992.
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Last edited by tjts1; 01-30-2015 at 07:01 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-30-2015, 05:59 PM
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Duke, I've driven a stock 2.3L, a stock 2.6L, my euro 2.3-16 and a 2.6L with 400E front brakes. Hands down, the 400E brakes are the easiest stage upgrade to the chassis. I'm glad you find your brakes adequate . . . so just imagine the improvement. I'm also familiar with that "cheese grater" of a track formerly known as Firebird Raceway. It's now Wild Horse Pass The bigger brakes make taking that hairpin just before the dregstrip a much faster corner, likewise the looper at the end of the strip.

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