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  #1  
Old 07-22-2015, 12:43 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 452
W124 M103 1987 260E rough idle

The car has been running rough while idling for about 3 months. The power during acceleration it used to have isnít there on the freeway. The roughness got worse gradually. Last night 2 minutes into my commute, it stumbled hard but recovered. This happened twice. When I got home 5 minutes later, the car stumbled and did not recover. I turned her off and restarted. I noticed it would start smooth and progressively get rough--earthquake type rough--within 10 seconds and would not recover and doesn't shut down. I replaced cap & rotor along with spark plugs (1 was broken), cleaned the ICV, and checked vacuum lines and rubber connections. I restarted the car, which was cold, and it was smooth but got progressively rough again like before in no time and my garage smelled like gas. Iím thinking itís the O2 sensor. Any thoughts?

Best Regards,

Andrew
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sjsfiji

'87 W124 260E (DD)
98K orig. mi. @7/15
CLK 7-Spoke Forged Wheels
Neuspeed springs/Bilstein Sport
4/3 bump (F/R)

'97 993 Carrera
106K orig. mi.
Always driven like it's stolen
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  #2  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:23 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 658
Your comment that you smelled gas makes me wonder if it's fuel system related as opposed to electrical system...plugs, rotor, etc. What's the history on the fuel filter, pumps, etc.?
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'89 260e (212K Mi.), '92 400e (208K Mi.), '92 400e (not a misprint) (146K Mi.), '95 C220, '81 240D--Sold
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  #3  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:22 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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video added..

Update: I started her up cold 30 minutes ago and she ran fine for 10 seconds. This was how it was exactly last night. Now, I don't smell much of the fuel odor like I did last night. Please advise what would cause this problem esp. when she starts just fine and runs smooth for 10 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiV7ZZUWUS0&feature=youtu.be
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sjsfiji

'87 W124 260E (DD)
98K orig. mi. @7/15
CLK 7-Spoke Forged Wheels
Neuspeed springs/Bilstein Sport
4/3 bump (F/R)

'97 993 Carrera
106K orig. mi.
Always driven like it's stolen
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:31 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 452
further update

I started the car up again and it would run smooth for 20 seconds, progressively get rough quickly, then recover smoothly again before getting rough once more. My neighbor and I think it's the fuel filter or maybe the injectors. When rough the car sounds like it's running on 1 or 2 cylinders, then 3, then 6, then 4, then 2, etc.... I'll replace the fuel filters first and see how that goes. Any thoughts?
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sjsfiji

'87 W124 260E (DD)
98K orig. mi. @7/15
CLK 7-Spoke Forged Wheels
Neuspeed springs/Bilstein Sport
4/3 bump (F/R)

'97 993 Carrera
106K orig. mi.
Always driven like it's stolen
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2015, 01:32 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 452
thanks PARSHOOT1

for your reply earlier, sorry late response...
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sjsfiji

'87 W124 260E (DD)
98K orig. mi. @7/15
CLK 7-Spoke Forged Wheels
Neuspeed springs/Bilstein Sport
4/3 bump (F/R)

'97 993 Carrera
106K orig. mi.
Always driven like it's stolen
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2015, 05:27 AM
optimusprime's Avatar
Trevor Hadlington
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worcestershire in England
Posts: 1,177
Sjs what plugs did you use to replace the ones that you removed.? Dont use resistor type plugs m103 engines as they dont like them the resistance is built in to the plug leeds .Not saying this is the problem with your car.
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  #7  
Old 07-23-2015, 05:37 AM
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Trevor Hadlington
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worcestershire in England
Posts: 1,177
SJS i would 1 clean inside the throttle body with carb and intake cleaner spray.Remove the air filter you will see a flap inside the throttle body gently push it down as you spray in the cleaner. It will get rid of all the old black crud that might stop the flap from closing. Do you know anything about the potentiometer ,this little thing is fixed to the throttle body ,in side its a carbon track this wears out as the metal rubbs it like a radio switch.Might be worth a check .
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2015, 09:08 AM
Benz Mondi
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sacramento area
Posts: 308
EHA valve!!!

Smell of gas is the classic sign of a leaking EHA valve. Lift off the air cleaner, it's the black box slightly larger than a match box that is bolted on the side of the fuel distributor (the spider looking silver mound that all the rigid fuel hoses go to). Turn the engine on and you'll see fuel leaking out of the weep holes. Good news is that there are plenty of good used ones on eBay for $80 of less (make sure you get a leak-free warranty). You'll also want to get a new pair of O-rings ($7.95). Don't try to find some cheap a/c O-rings as poor substitutes or re-use the old ones. They'll just leak again. EHA O-rings are made of a special compound and are of a specific size that doesn't match anything you can find locally.

Removal/installation is easy: 1) with the engine not running, put a cloth underneath the EHA to soak up the small amount of fuel and, more importantly, the bolts and O-rings that you'll surely drop and never find in the depth of the engine. Unplug the electrical connector at the side of the EHA. Some of the bolt heads require a Torx (should be a T-30) or standard flat head screw driver. If it's a Torx, make sure you use the correctly fitting one. You don't want to strip this. It usually takes more torque that one would think to turn the bolt. BEFORE, you attempt to turn the first bolt, take another cloth and cover the top side of the EHA while you turn the bolt. Otherwise you are sure to get a shot of gasoline in the eyes. Loosen each bolt until the gas leaks out and the pressure is gone. Then unbolt the EHA the rest of the way. Inspect the replacement EHA mating surface to make sure it's completely clean and flat. The same for the mating surface at the fuel distributor. Remove the old green O-rings from the fuel distributor with a pick. Install the new ones, making sure the completely fit inside the recessed cavities. Carefully bolt on the EHA, making sure you haven't dislodged the O-rings. You just need to "hand-tight" the bolts. The fuel pressure will make the fit tighter. Clear the area of the cloths and tools. First turn the key to the on (do not start the car) to pressurize the EHA and check for leaks, then turn the engine on. It should not only idle well, but should not have any leaks. Keep the engine running for at least 5 minutes and increase the RPM's to 2,500 for at least 30 seconds to check for leaks. Done!
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2015, 04:29 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 452
thanks

Thanks for the replies. I use HR9DC+ which IIRC is Denso. Anyhow, my neighbor who has a shop that strictly deals with MBZ recs to change fuel filter and if problem persists, check injectors, FPR, Fuel Dist (in that order).

Update: The car starts and runs for NLT 10 seconds (idle) anytime I try to start her whether after overnight or just after turning off due to rough idle. When I do leave her running, she recovers just fine for another 10 seconds before stumbling again. My neighbor swears the problem is not electrical, but mechanical (fuel starvation). Of course it could be the electricals that power the mechanicals too...

Since I can start the car anytime, but only runs for NMT 10 seconds normally, I think I can safely assume the FP, FP relay, and accumulator is workingófuel pressure (accumulated) is at least fine for 10 seconds. Since itís starved afterwards, weíre thinking clogged fuel filter or injectors, maybe broken FPR. Iíll look into what everyone has suggested as well. Thanks againÖ
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sjsfiji

'87 W124 260E (DD)
98K orig. mi. @7/15
CLK 7-Spoke Forged Wheels
Neuspeed springs/Bilstein Sport
4/3 bump (F/R)

'97 993 Carrera
106K orig. mi.
Always driven like it's stolen
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2015, 02:32 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: California
Posts: 1,934
I have a suggestion: remove the air cleaner housing and tap on the side of the throttle body with a metal hammer or wrench.....something that will give it a good knock. Not too hard, but not soft either. Do it with the car off, then if nothing try it with the car on. If that does not work, turn the car on and unplug the eha....I understand you have 10 seconds so it's best to have someone crank it over for you. If the car runs with eha unplugged, leave it unplugged until you can source a working one. If car runs after knocking throttle body, remove the fuel distributor and the throttle body (only remove the tb if you have a gasket to replace the one underneath. Auto zone sells the sheets of gasket material which is what I have now. Works great.) Once the tb is off use carb cleaner to clean the dirt from the moving parts then lubricate moving parts with transmission fluid, per the mb fsm.
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  #11  
Old 08-02-2015, 11:37 PM
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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Update

I sprayed some carb cleaner into the throttle body as suggested and now she runs longer, rpm hunts from 600 to 1500, then stumbles but recovers and the cycle repeats. At least now I can run her 'til warm at 80C but still the same symptoms as when cold. I replaced the fuel filter but that didn't improve anything. I checked for leaks around the EHA and there were no leaks. What else can I do to clean or check the throttle body. That looks like the culprit or part of. Any thoughts?

tia,

sjsfiji
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sjsfiji

'87 W124 260E (DD)
98K orig. mi. @7/15
CLK 7-Spoke Forged Wheels
Neuspeed springs/Bilstein Sport
4/3 bump (F/R)

'97 993 Carrera
106K orig. mi.
Always driven like it's stolen
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2015, 01:19 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: California
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If you sprayed carb cleaner into the throttle body and its running longer you should enrichen the mixture a bit. Here is what I did while using a multimeter. Take off the diagnostic cap on driver side fender and use ports 2 and 3. Set the multimeter to read voltage and set the dial to 20. Insert the probes into the # 2 and 3 ports when the car is warmed up and running. If the voltage is (-) negative, swap the probes around. You should see your voltage jumping between numbers, but always remaining within a certain range, i.e., 4.6 through 5.7, something like that. Remember the ranges that the voltage shows in case you need to get back to them. Now you need to access the fuel/air mixture screw which is located under the air cleaner housing. Using a (3mm, I believe) hex key insert it into the open end of the adjustment port and press down, the screw is spring-loaded so once you reach the screw you will feel some resistance. Press down gently and kind of turn the hex key until you feel that the key is inside the screw. Once the key is in, slowly press down and turn the screw 1/4 turn clockwise. Observe the voltage on the multimeter for 15 seconds. You will notice that the voltage readings and range have increased. Wait until it stabilizes, meaning it will slowly go up to its max range then it will begin to jump around in btween its lowest point in the voltage and its highest point. Turn the car off and then try starting it again and see if it helps. If it does a bit or you're not sure give it another 1/4 turn clockwise following the same procedure. Also, be sure to remove the hex key after each turn you the spring doesn't shoot it out.
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2015, 06:36 AM
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Trevor Hadlington
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Worcestershire in England
Posts: 1,177
I would get a new distributor top and rotor ,then if its the same new plug leeds.
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2015, 12:54 PM
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Location: San Francisco Bay Area
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response

All,

Thanks for the response. The distributor rotor, cap, plugs, leads, and fuel filter have been recently replaced. I measured the leads and they're all 1K ohm +/- 10% so I think they're ok. The EHA has not leaks.

I'll try adjusting the duty cycle as suggested tonight and see if that addresses the stumbling, but it happens when cold (open loop) and hot (closed loop). As such, I doubt it's the mixture, O2 sensor, or cold start valve. The car was running perfectly just before this rough idle/stumbling issue.

I'm thinking it might be dirty fuel injectors and/or fuel distributor or faulty fuel pressure regulator. Anyone else think one of those could be the culprit?

I'll update frequently.

Again, thanks in advance for any insight.

Regards,

sjsfiji
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sjsfiji

'87 W124 260E (DD)
98K orig. mi. @7/15
CLK 7-Spoke Forged Wheels
Neuspeed springs/Bilstein Sport
4/3 bump (F/R)

'97 993 Carrera
106K orig. mi.
Always driven like it's stolen
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  #15  
Old 08-04-2015, 04:11 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: California
Posts: 1,934
BOSCH KE3-JETRONIC MIXTURE ADJUSTMENT
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