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  #61  
Old 08-03-2002, 07:32 PM
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gracious me, sounds like an 86 nissan sev6 pickup that i had...spent vast amounts of $$$ to find out after an inordinate amount of time, money and frustration that the wheels had not been properly torqued on after each attempt to solve the shake, rattle and roll. each removal and replacement without proper torquing changed the vibes to a different speed and sensitivity to road conditions... no 2 road rides produced the same results.... frustrating as hell


mithra
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  #62  
Old 08-03-2002, 09:48 PM
it leaks, its german
 
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One other note on sticking calipers, make sure the master cly isn't sticking. I watched a guy across the shop from me fight a 202 for a week that had a master cly that had gotten some off the wall stuff in it and the longer you drove it, the tighter the brakes got until the car simply would not move. Once things cooled a bit, the car would once again roll.


Toyota had a campaign on adjusting the booster rod for the same thing.

Just food for thought.
Joe
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  #63  
Old 08-03-2002, 11:18 PM
1992300e
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rotors

Hi,

When I run into situations like this I use my hand to feel the temperature of my wheels (rims). If you are having a caliper hang up, which will apply the brakes and generate heat you'll be able tofeel one rim be much hotter than the other.

After a drive get out and feel the front wheels (rims), see if one, possibly the right, feels hotter than the other. That would indicate hung rotor on the hot side. I also use this test for checking for when I think I might have a bad wheel bearing.

Thanks,
Joel

Hope this helps a little, I did not read all posts in detail, someone might have already mentioned this.
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  #64  
Old 08-04-2002, 12:25 AM
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Well I've actually tried the drive-'n-feel test a few times, and the rims stay cool as do the rotors. I'm still leaning towards a suspension or perhaps a tranny type thing. I saw a post on here about a shaking transmission - at this point I'm brainstorming before I take it in again and spend more $$ on something that isn't even related to the problem and then be told I'm crazy - there is no vibration. Thanks for the advice gents.... I really do appreciate it! I'm game to listen to anything at this point.
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  #65  
Old 08-04-2002, 12:57 AM
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well, after I got beat up on the forum, I vote for the shock/struts issue. I just replaced my front struts after 135 K miles, and I probably could have driven another 30,000 miles on the old ones. But, shocks can, and do, go bad (I had a strut go bad on a Celica after 15,000 miles).

As to Michelins (to close up that discussion), I agree, that statistically, they are one of the better tires. However, if I spend 50% more on a tire I want more of an assurance than the fact that they could possibly go slightly longer than the cheaper tire. Michs do not give that assurance. Arguably, its a solid tire. Is it worth double the price of other tires? I say no.

As to the difference in handling, I can always tell the difference between groups of tires like Futura, Cooper, and non-brand vs. Michelins, Dunlops, and Bridgestone. But difference between Michelin and, say, Dunlop?? I think not

Incidentally, in over 20 years of driving I NEVER had to re-balance any tire.
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  #66  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:38 AM
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The difference between a Michelin and a Dunlap start occuring at about 20k. When new there is probably no difference that I can feel. Actually the Dunlops are a very good tire for the length of their tread. They just wear out in half the time.

Dunlops are the only tire I can say that about. Pirellis are the worse, but all others have great difficulty with the other two critical issues of tire's longevity. The first issue is the tire"s desire (through aggresive tread design) to scallop the edges and become noisy. MBs are particularly suseptible to this due to the high amount of caster built into the front ends. This causes the tire to lean into a turn. Great for handling , but causes the scalloped edges on both inside and out on the front. Tires with these tread patterns give noise that often is mistaken for wheel bearings. The Michelin XGT series of tires have this problem and I don't consider them good tires. The Michelin Pilot MXV4 and MXM tires are absolutely top of the line here.

The second issue is the tires ability to take a beating and remain round. That pothole that felt like it was going through the floor and left no damage was just an illusion. It does damage the tire and it shows up 5000 miles later (or less). This is really where the money went. Bullet proof tires cost money and Michelin really has no comparison here. I diagnose at least 5 cars a week with drivability problems due to this issue and they are never Michelins.

I do many alignments for another shop that specializes in Nissans. The owner swears by a number of Jappanese tires; Bridgestone and Yokahoma mostly. Maybe the tires get the rap when the customer/car should take some of it, but I am finding these problems regularly with cars sent for alignment.

In many issues of quality the last level takes a larger financial commitment than the amount of gain. Is that MB really worth twice as much as that Aurora? With tires, I believe it is more distinct. Michelins get most of the money back by lasting that much longer (while usefull - out of round tires have no use to me).

The comfort and reliability are luxury factors hard to put a dollar on, I'm glad the economics can be usually equated through longer wear.
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  #67  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:53 PM
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Steve, I agree with your assessment of the tire wear due to specifics of the MB suspension. However, I'm still doubtful, if Michelins will last that much longer than other tires (sorry). I admit a VERY limited knowledge of MBs (total of 50,000 miles-laughable, really). But I'll stay with my previous statements. However, I'll give you this - If any one of my cars was worth more than $15K, I would consider Michelins. But, A) none does, and B) I'm on the budget (at least for now). So, I'm always looking for a reasonable good tire for a reasonable price.
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  #68  
Old 08-05-2002, 09:01 AM
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My most basic point with tires is that: tires make the car. Your decision about tires suits you and I can't say too much against any economic plan. But, whether your car is a MB at $5000 or at $50,000, the tires you put on it have more to do with its drivability than anything else you can do. Safety is a bonus.
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  #69  
Old 08-07-2002, 09:49 AM
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Steve,

Thanks for your comment about the Michelin XGT's. My mechanic says they are like Goodyears - why would anybody put them on a Mercedes???

767Flyer,

I have a similar type problem on my 1987 300D (247Kmi). The front and rear suspension have been nearly 100% rebulit. There's no rubber in the front that hasn't been changed, the only thing in the rear original is the subframe bushings and inner control arm bushings and top diff. mounts. Shocks were changed about 60Kmi with HD Bilsteins. Rears were improperly mounts and now one leaks very small amount. Front wheels bearings replaced, rear are original. Everything seems tight. Dealer shop foreman on a previous issue identified my transmission as a problem. He didn't like the way it shifted. My mechanic says there is something wrong with it too, and there's a klunk when rotating the driveshaft that neither say is the driveshaft - I have another post on this in the Tech section asking if output shaft play can cause vibrations? My vibration is in the steering and gas pedal. Changing into neutral or 3rd while coasting or going downhill (when its most noticable) does not change the problem.

If its a battle you plan to win, don't lose hope. But don't put your life savings or complete emotions on it either. Ever hear of the story of the new car that had a vibration (so under warranty). First things wheel bearings, etc replaced. Then driveshaft. Then trans. Then engine. Then problem was gone, owner so wore out he traded it in for another new car.

Brian
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  #70  
Old 08-07-2002, 02:46 PM
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Brian, thanks for the input. Funny you should mention.... I tracked down some work acquaintances of mine that have Benzes and asked them were they take their cars. All but one recommended a particular dealership here in south FL. I thought, oh great here we go again with another dealership - I don't want to deal with them again. But, they came recommended and no independent could solve the problem - so I took it in the other day. Wow - the customer service was fantastic. They took plenty of time and very courteous. What a shock for down here. Anyway, turns out my shaking is probably transmission related as well. I was going to wait to post anything until I had the lowdown, but I've been told it is transmission/driveshaft related. They are still troubleshooting. I have been having intermittent shifting problems, which I thought the new computer would help but didn't (can you say $600!). I just attributed this to a typical C280 quirky tranny. Struts/shocks, et. al. are fine. So I will post when I hear the results. Thank goodness I bought that extended warranty!
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  #71  
Old 08-07-2002, 02:51 PM
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You mean to tell me all this time you've had the extended warranty?

And here all the while I've thinking "the poor guy is sinking all his money into the car..."

I wished I had the warranty when I was sinking over $4,000 into trouble shooting two problems that ultimately had very cheap fixes...
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  #72  
Old 08-07-2002, 03:40 PM
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Yes, I have spent a lot on this car so far! There were many items that the extended warranty did not cover trying to solve this SHAKE. A tranny computer for $600? Out of my pocket, just after the factory warranty expired, of course. At first it wasn't related to the shaking, just shift problems. Now it may be related. And now we're getting into big ticket items that I'm not about to throw any more money at.

I'm not asking for anyone to feel sorry! I'm taking a genuine interest in learning about this car because I love it and want it to drive like a Benz again. I've appreciated everyone helping me out on here. What good is an extended warranty if your problem never gets resolved, yet the warranty is bled out? If they ain't going to cover something, then I have to. This car is not the Space Shuttle - there is a fix somewhere.
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Last edited by 767Flyer; 08-07-2002 at 06:56 PM.
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  #73  
Old 08-07-2002, 06:02 PM
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Oh, your factory warrant is up.

Now I feel your pain again... :p
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2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
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1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
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  #74  
Old 08-07-2002, 06:16 PM
1992300e
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too late

Hi,

I just thought of something I've tried in the past. Not sure how violent the shake is, and sounds like this new dealer may have things under control.

But have you tried having someone else drive your car and you follow and look things over as the car is moving.

I've had my wife drive the car and my brother drive me in another car. We would drive next to, behind, and in front of the car and look for problems like yours. Sometimes you can see what's going on better when driving next to the car rather than sitting in it.

Just a thought, you never know what'll work.

Has this worked for anyone else?

Joel

When I have problems like this, like most of us, I try process of elimination. I think of anything that would spin or cause shake.

Wheel bearings (front and back), brake rotors (calipers) - all of these items could be checked by the hand feel for heat method we discussed earlier.

Front end and rear end suspension components (bushings). Usually grabbing a wheel and shaking can disclose.

Stearing components (would show up as uneven tire wear quickly).

Crappy tires, actually had bad pair of goodyears cause this problem once for me.

Then drive train

Like you say, not space shuttle, not rocket science.
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  #75  
Old 08-07-2002, 06:55 PM
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Yes, on the way to the shop my wife followed me - in the C280 that works We talked to each other on our cell phones - I had her look to see if there was a wheel shaking, or any other obvious signs that something was wrong. Nothing. Hopefully in a few days I'll know the answer!
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