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  #1  
Old 12-03-2002, 01:34 PM
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Anyone seen the new JD power article?

Found an article on the Lexus forum about JD power latest survery...very interesting

D Power Study: Lexus continues the Streak
Posted on: 11-24-02

By Rominl

Today JD Power Associate releases their study on the long term durability of vehicles from different manufacturers. Japanese manufacturers continue to occupy the top of the list, and for the eight straight years, Lexus takes the crown to have the best long term durability. The study was done on 30,000 owners of 1998 model vehicles.

Amazingly, for a four to five year old Lexus, on average there are only 159 problems out of every 100 cars. This number is way under the average, which is 355 problems per 100 cars. Right behind Lexus is Infiniti, Acura, Honda, and Toyota respectively. In fact, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan (Lexus is luxury division of Toyota, Acura is luxury division of Honda, and Infiniti is luxury division of Nissan) has been among the top in the durability test for years already, whereas US manufacturers have failed to come close, said Brian Walters, director of project research.

On the other hand, Mercedes Benz took a big hit, falling from 296 problems per 100 cars to around 364 problems, a dramatic 23% drop. Since it is below average, JD Power Associate refuses to release the exact score since it's below average.

The main reason for their big hit on Mercedes Benz was their first introduction of their SUV, the M Class. It's not only Mercedes' first ever SUV, in a whole new plant in Tuscaloosa, Ala. Walters stated that usually when a new vehicle is first introduced, and especially in a new plant, it's always hard for the manufacturer to control the quality. Ever since their introduction in 1998, the M Class have had quite a few problems, but Walters stated that the quality of the M Class has been improved a lot since then, so he expects that Mercedes will score a lot better again next year.

Volkswagen's AG's Audi also faces a drop of 19% from 328 problems per 100 cars to now below average. Interesting enough, Suzuki has the biggest improvement of 27%, but they are still below average.

Among the big 10 were also Porsche AG, Buick, Cadillac, Jaguar, and BMW AG. In fact Buick and Cadillac are the only two GM brands to score above average, as opposed to four last year. Over the recent years GM has improved their vehicle initial quality study, which covers the first 90 days of the ownership of the vehicle. Their Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said in September that the GM quality would catch up with Honda and Toyota in the next couple of years.

However, just as Walters mentioned, majority of the owners care about the long term durability more importantly.

Source:

Autonews
JD Power Associate




Warren
1992 300SD 152K
Columbus Ohio
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2002, 01:42 PM
LarryBible
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A 1998 model constitutes "Long Term" data? I don't usually break in my cars within four years.

Have a great day,
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2002, 01:45 PM
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does that mean it takes 4-5 years of repairs to get it right?...lol

Warren
1992 300SD 152K
Columbus Ohio
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2002, 03:30 PM
BlackE55
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J.D. Powers, sheesh. A mere marketing tool for their "top rated" manufacturers -- and their statistical analysis is flawed. None of their info has any relevance to people like me who buy older cars.

There's a local car radio program on in my area and the host has orgasms over nearly every Lexus produced and goes ga-ga over the Honda S2000. It's quality this, quality that. I'd like him to go out and test drive some 11 year old, 120k mile Lexus and then report to the listeners.
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  #5  
Old 12-03-2002, 03:34 PM
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well you speak about an 11 year old 120K car...I have seen old LS 400's(90-91) with far more mileage than that with the owners claiming the car has NEVER needed anything other than scheduled maintenance...a few of which had close to 200K miles


Warren
1992 300SD 152K
Columbus Ohio
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2002, 03:45 PM
BlackE55
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I've heard otherwise from my mechanic buddy who works on all imports.

Different strokes for different folks. If I wanted an appliance on wheels, there would be a Lexus in my garage right now.

My W126 is much more DIY friendly than a Lexus -- lotsa space and there's that term, "elegance in simplicity".
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2002, 04:04 PM
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elegance in simplicity you say....well I would say when Mercedes created the 140 that idea/concept went straight out the window

although the car is tank , very elegant and an engineering marvel...nothing simple about it(in my opinion)

Warren
1992 300SD 152K
Columbus Ohio
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2002, 04:22 PM
LarryBible
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Wow, you mean a Lexus makes it to 200,000 miles as good as an MB? How about 530,000?

Have a great day,
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2002, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Wow, you mean a Lexus makes it to 200,000 miles as good as an MB? How about 530,000?

Larry,

I am not sure...but you can look at my repair history posted under another thread and see how a particular 140( with full MB dealer service records and one former owner) made it to 152K to the tune of over $25,000 in repairs...wonder what the $$ repair guestimate for 530K in a 140 is?


Warren
1992 300SD 152K
Columbus Ohio
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2002, 05:13 PM
LarryBible
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Some of them need repairs and some of them don't, regardless of the brand. You are unlucky, don't go to Vegas any time soon.

Good luck,
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2002, 05:48 PM
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Unlucky?.....you might want to take a look at the repair records of 140 models specifically...my case is somewhat higher than normal...but not out of line(for a 140,as I know several that own them)....look at a typical early 90's 600SEL's repair history if you want a real eye opener( or for that matter anyone has kept their 140 in pristine condition for several years)...you might even know a few

you are right some of them need repairs and others don't.....the big question is what is TYPICAL for the particular model....

look at the costs for an extended warranty...that is usally a good indication of a particular models history of repairs

as for Vegas..I am not a gambler

hence the reason I purchased the extended warranty years ago when I bought the car

Warren
1992 300SD 152K
Columbus Ohio
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2002, 06:42 PM
BlackE55
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The W140 is a marvelous car! My mother owned an S500 for a summer, but got rid of it before the nasty Minnesota winters.

Bought an extended wty as well. Never had a problem, but again -- only 6 mos of ownership.

The 140 ismore complicated than a 126, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of the later years in that series.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2002, 09:54 PM
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The rule of thumb is simple concerning new model MBs'. Obviously, the first year will have a few bugs ( or worse ) that need to be straightened out. MB begins correcting these problems as soon as they arise. They've done this with ML's( remote locking, gas guages ), 220 S-class (restricted evaporator lines), 203 C-class ( fuel pumps, engine control modules ), and the list goes on..... We're often notified of potential problems by MB before we have any customer complaints! In my experience it's the third model year that the cars start to get NICER. Plusher seats and door panels, as well as other small refinements that just add to the enjoyment of the car. And any of you who own 95'E320's, 91'126's, or 93 190e's, can testify to the fact that the last year of production yields the best of the entire line! Oops, I left out the 1985 300 Turbodiesels, sorry. I must say that the 96' E-class was pretty darn good right out of the box, but it too, only got better. The new E-class is having some minor teething pain, but nothing to lose any sleep over. I'm sure someday it too, will join the long list of it's predecessors that have made MB what it is today.
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  #14  
Old 12-04-2002, 09:27 AM
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Actually it doesn't make me feel any better...but what truly made me feel better was having the extended warranty

the last two MB's I have owned..85 300SD and a 92 300D were both purchased out of warranty...and franakly if I had bought a warranty with either I would not have gotten my money back

but I guess thats what the warranty co's count one..several people not having claims in order to pay for the cars that have the huge drains of cash needed for repairs

something earlier said about the 220..there are more problems than that...they have had to replace several seat computers at the dealer I patronize to the tune of $1000 per seat...so that car has some teething pain goin on also...but the updated 2003 model has many new improved features according to the tech at the dealer

Warren
1992 300SD 152K
Columbus Ohio
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  #15  
Old 12-04-2002, 10:12 AM
LarryBible
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If it makes you feel better, I'm sure that there are Lexus owners out there who have experienced the same kind of stuff.

Good luck,
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