Snap-On MT2500 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

LeaUK · #16 03-01-2004, 03:22 PM

Steve

After spending over 20 minutes looking through my subscription to AllData for the DIY section I finally Googled for it and found your excellent description right here - LOL. I never visit the main page and just tend to 'cut to the action' here on these forums. That'll teach me.

Am I correct in assuming that AllData will refer connection of the HHT if the diagnostic module in question is 'digital'? My concern is that I wouldn't want to ground any of the X11/4 diagnostic pins that were not designed for use with the 'impulse counter'.

Am I also correct in assuming a 'digital' connection just means an RS232 serial connection? This would tie in with extracting 'real time' data through a single pin. ie the LH control module.

BTW - thanks for your assistance Steve, we are extremely fortunate to speak with the few who have such a wealth of experience such as yourself.

jgl1

Are you familiar with the MT2500 in anyway? No one at Snap-on or Sun appear willing to assist me by email and therefore I've already gained a rather negative opinion of their company!

Does the MT2500 expect all diagnostic data to be serial (digital) or can the unit be set to count diag pulses? I can't understand why Sun have implemented the other menus allowing what appears to be conection to the body system diagnostics, but the unit still fails to communicate (apart from the LH module). I've tried every combination of year but to no avail.

Any help would be much appreciated.

General

I also write software for embedded and PC platforms so if anyone knows the protocols being used I would be quite happy to code a GUI for a laptop of similar - something like CarSoft maybe?
Please let me know.

Thanks
Lea

stevebfl · #17 03-01-2004, 04:22 PM

My experience tells me you do not need to worry about whether analog or digital for grounding the pin. The analog accepts it as a diagnostic program signal. The digital will just see a temporary communications breal down. The phone line will be pulled low so to speak. This line is not hurt by pulling low and probably won't set any codes on any system I know, let alone damage it.

My experience says that Bosch and MB designed systems that were pretty carefull about casual obsrvation. The control units are protected against most circuit problems internally. Even the power command signals are current limited to protect against shorts to ground. Most sensor inputs are protected against both short to B+ and short to ground. The way to hurt one is to shoot high voltage through one.

I am not familiar enough with computers in general to speak to communications protocols. Most diagnostic comminications is done at 10kps (rounded out). The cars buss systems can be running to 500kps. The communications rate might have changed already but is scheduled to go to CAN speed by 2005 I think.

LINDS HANSON · #18 03-02-2004, 04:58 AM

Hi guys sorry to go off subject a little but as anyone tried the Winstar diagnostic softwear?. I had a demo on our R129 SL60 the system seemed really quick with instant ECU recognicion and access to every system i.e. engine/ transmission,ABS, BAS, ASR, Climate, Cruise and Distance, suspension, roof control, alarm and locking , key recognicion and coding etc it covered all models from 1989 201/124 up to 2003 203/ R230. It lots of live data from all areas. As anyone got anymore feedback on this system? Thanks Linds

stevebfl · #19 03-02-2004, 07:54 AM

I have seen the demos on the system, I haven't seen one for sale. The demos I've seen (I was sent some in communications with them on their BMW module which isn't as far along - I think) were everything I would have expected from the factory tool with additional guidance. No Programming though.

I also haven't seen how they will handle a system designed in DAS as most of the tools usefullness then is proprietary data used in the diagnostic stream; which they told me they weren't going to copy (they are Chinese). They said they were working with MB for licencing rights to programming and diagnostic strategy DAS.

I don't know that I was ever told a price or where they can be bought. I have talked to techs in Australia and New Zealand that have seen them in use. This would be a major professional tool from what I have seen.

jgl1 · #20 05-10-2004, 11:11 PM

Snap-on's new 2003 M-B cartridge for the MT-2500 addresses some of the aforementioned complaints. Improvements over the 2001 module include:

* Automatic version coding for engine and transmission control module replacement

* Additional Engine Management Systems: ME-SFI 2.7.5, 2.8.1 and SIM4/LE

* Transmission Systems: EGS 5.2 (2002-2003)

* Air Bag Systems: ZAE, AB2

* Electronic Shift Control Modules: EWM203, EWM210, & EWM220

* Climate Control Systems: KLA, TAU

* Electronic Actuator, Cruise Control, Idle Speed Control Module
(EA/CC/ISC)

* ML Transfer Case: 1998 - 2003

A MT-2005 and 2003 M-B cartridge pack is available from M-B's SSEP Catalog (www.startekinfo.com) for $1611. This combination is not offered by Snap-on's retail dealers.

But... the Launch X431 (www.cnlaunch.com/x431/) is looking quite reasonable for what it offers. The unit was released over a year ago and presently retails for approx. $2800; it covers nearly all passenger vehicles, includes a printer, variety of adapters and a year of unlimited updates. It appears to be a poor man's alternative to M-B's SDS. Has anyone had the opportunity to use the X431 at length?

And yet... Vetronix (www.vetronix.com) is soon to release their KTS 650 integrated European diagnostic system, which was developed in conjunction with Bosch and utilizes a tablet PC. The unit "combines diagnostics with service and repair information, schematics and more."

stevebfl · #21 05-11-2004, 08:09 AM

I have used both the x431 and the Vetronix/Bosch product. The Bosch product in the KTS650 form is over 10 grand and the KTS550 which I used is over 5 grand. The difference is that the 650 is a stand alone rough service laptop type PC device. The 550 is just an interface to be used with ones own laptop.

The price includes some ammount of the yearly subscription to Bosch ESI which currently runs around $1500 a year. Both units are also set-up to be two channel PC oscilliscopes.

When I used the Bosch product, Vetronix was yet to be involved and it would not approach professional standards for servicing MB products, many and various holes. I have ben told by those who would wish I would stay out of this that since Vetronix was bought that their have been 250 people patching the holes and theyhave a real product. That is to be seen.

The x431 takes a totally different approach to diagnostics than Bosch. By reverse engineering they have been able to produce a basically complete product. Bosch will not cover a system untill they have the controller ID and codes for every version. X431 and others approach it systematically.

I have used the x431 on a 99 E430 in a demo and it ran a short test and saw all the modules including DCMs, ESAs, etc. Some were missing functions such as the DCMs only had fault codes, there were no actual values.

The real interesting thing about the x431 is that the price also includes decent coverage on most other European and Asian autos with internet downloads for new releases.

I would say that these tools are not something most enthusiasts will spend for. The Snap-On with improvements to coverage becomes DIY accessable with MBs price or even better with a used price on ebay and a new module.

gsxr · #22 05-18-2008, 12:47 PM

Hey everyone, does anyone know if the MT2500 can read 3-digit codes from 38-pin OBD1, same as the Mercedes HHT? I need something that will read the 3-digit codes. See the photo below... the LED impulse counter just shows "2", but the HHT would show 002, 006, 007, 008, 009, or 025... far more precision available there. (Hmm... I wonder who makes the Mercedes HHT. Anyone know? I've never even seen one.)

I don't really need "live" data, I just want to know which of the six possible things in that list could be causing my code 2! Any info would be appreciated... thanks!!