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  #16  
Old 07-31-2000, 11:18 PM
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Los Angeles, Calif, USA
Posts: 521
Hi Larry,

Sorry to hear all these bad news. Is possible that a bad flex disk causing the vibration? If it is, it should happen only when the car is moving.

Good Luck

David



[This message has been edited by be459 (edited 07-31-2000).]
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  #17  
Old 08-01-2000, 12:34 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
Hello again, Larry,
I, too, am sorry to hear of all your current problems. While I have no idea of what may be wrong, may I suggest that you put the car up on a rack and get underneath so you can observe, feel and listen to the drive train while in operation? Wish I had something better to offer.

Good luck.

------------------
Ted
1979 240D
160,000 miles
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2000, 05:30 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
Back again- -grasping at straws: Are the water pump shaft and fan solid?

------------------
Ted
1979 240D
160,000 miles
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  #19  
Old 08-01-2000, 07:13 AM
LarryBible
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Folks,

Thanks for the continuing thoughts and responses.

My next session with the car, which will probably be tomorrow night, I will take off all three belts, crank it and rev it up once to see if the vibration goes away.

If it were the flex plate, it would seem that it would happen when you rev it up, wheter or not the vehicle is under way.

Thanks everyone, I haven't set it afire yet,
Larry

PS When I think further about this. The vibration is so bad, I believe I would see a heavily pulsating belt if the problem were an accessory. I will try it anyway. LB

[This message has been edited by LarryBible (edited 08-01-2000).]
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2000, 08:27 AM
LarryBible
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Didn't get to the daughter's car last night like I said, had other car problems, this time with an American piece of #@(&.

But I was wondering, those of you who have lost a harmonic balancer from a 240D or 300D, was there noticable vibration for any period of time prior to the catastrophic occurrence?

Thanks for your responses,

------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles

[This message has been edited by LarryBible (edited 08-02-2000).]
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  #21  
Old 08-02-2000, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Gainesville FL
Posts: 6,844
I would rethink the motor mounts. If the center has fallen through they transmit a tremendous amount of noise/vibration as the metal of the mount beats on the frame.

I have seen about every balancer problem imaginable including wrong oiut of balance balancers and can't imagine one causing the problem you describe.

Does the engine seem to be running properly other than the vibration? Is the power OK? A diesel with a big timing problem will shake terribly and not be related to single cylinders.




------------------
Steve Brotherton
Owner 24 bay BSC
Bosch Master, ASE master L1
26 years MB technician
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  #22  
Old 08-02-2000, 10:46 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 399
Steve mentioned timing. What about the injection timer in the sprocket that drives the injection pump. Could it have jammed? As an aside, has anyone had a problem with an injection timer? Do they wear?
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  #23  
Old 08-02-2000, 12:00 PM
LarryBible
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Steve,

Thanks very much for sharing your experience. Although it may need mounts, the vibration does not feel metallic in any way. I will do the drip method timing check, it will at least find any gross error that may exist.

Vince,

My experience has been that once timing is set nothing changes it very much until overhaul time unless there's some big problem. However, my experience base in this area is limited to a half dozen 123 diesels. It would seem to me that if there was any jamming of the chain in the pump area, there would be catastrophic failure, or at least an engine that wouldn't run.

Thanks to everyone for the continuing input,

------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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  #24  
Old 08-02-2000, 03:38 PM
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Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 399
Actually Larry, I wasn't thinking of a jammed chain, but a faulty timer. I think the injection timer acts to advance the injection timing as engine RPM increases. I've never had one apart, but from the manual it appears to be a "centrifugal advance" mechanism built into the sprocket that drives the pump. I know it is a reach, but when Steve mentioned timing it made me think. I've always wondered if the timers wear and if that could explain the erratic nature of the idle on my 1983 240D. I've checked everything. One day it idles like a gas car, the next day I shakes so much you would think it's going to tear itself out of it's mounts. It's going to be interesting to see what you find. Good luck!!
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  #25  
Old 08-02-2000, 04:30 PM
LarryBible
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vince,

Thanks for the thought. Theoretically it seems to hold water. I'll be interested to see if any of the pros have ever seen something like this.

Thanks,
Larry
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  #26  
Old 08-02-2000, 10:30 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
Larry,
In response to your question several posts back: I have lost three harmonic balancers on my car and there was never any warning of any kind. One second everything was going fine and a second later the whole thing was in pieces.

------------------
Ted
1979 240D
160,000 miles
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  #27  
Old 08-03-2000, 12:03 AM
Larry Delor's Avatar
What, Me Worry?
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Sarasota, Fl.
Posts: 3,077
Same here with my three harmonic balancers. Well the second time I thought that the engine sounded funny, but thought it was loose belts slapping around, 10 minutes later the bolt was broken, and I was broken down. On my motor, before I bought it, two pistons were replaced, the #1 and #5. #5 had a bad valve, #1 was loose inside of its walls, although you couldn't tell with the head off. So far its still sitting ina corner waiting for the balancer problem to be resolved. But I may have come across a donor car. BTW if you need a non turbo 300 crank, i got a used one....cheap! and a rebuildable block
Good luck with your hunt, I am curious as to what you find.
-Larry

------------------
03/83 300D 184k
07/73 280 160k
-88 other 153k
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  #28  
Old 08-03-2000, 08:44 AM
LarryBible
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Thanks for the harmonic balancer feedback. If you've been reading along, I am anxious to check the timing. I will do that Friday night before I get into my 240D clutch job Saturday, which reminds me of another post I need to make.

Thanks to everyone and have a great day,

------------------
Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
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  #29  
Old 08-06-2000, 12:28 AM
LarryBible
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Well, I checked the timing and it was at 20 BTDC, I changed it to 26 with the drip method.

Same ol' thing.

I guess I'll try the purge and/or a set of injectors. Actually, I have some injectors that aren't great, but they work, I may try them to see what effect they have.

This one is really wearing me out. I don't mind doing work on these cars, but when I cant' determine what to do, that's the most frustrating part.

Thanks for the help everyone,
Larry
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  #30  
Old 08-06-2000, 01:41 PM
Larry Delor's Avatar
What, Me Worry?
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Sarasota, Fl.
Posts: 3,077
Larry, I know you said that you adjusted the valves when your daughter first got the car, but, maybe you want to eyeball them again,...just to make sure.
Just to go over a few things...the oil nor the water is contaminated. Fuel timing is ok. Injectors appear to be injecting. This leaves either the valves or something awry in the bottom half...however your compression check would want to steer you away from the bottom...hmmm.
I know I didn't come up with any earthshattering revelations, but sometimes going over the details can get us distracted enough to fall on to the right track.
-Larry

------------------
03/83 300D 184k
07/73 280 160k
-88 other 153k
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