UPDATE: What's the Clacking noise? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Tomguy · #16 10-15-2009, 08:38 PM

The m110 has a flat head. On the m116 and m117 engines, the heads are angled and there's no lip to catch the oil as stated. Removing the valve covers often results in oil on the headers/manifold without the engine running as is!

PanzerSD · #17 10-15-2009, 10:21 PM

OK, Ok, forget I asked

Returning to topic: When I swap the cams over, because I'm retro fitting a solid ball stud cam, towers and rockers, the manual sez that I need to block an oil passage that feeds the previous hydraulic ball studs. what do you suppose would happen if I didn't block it? I imagine oil flowing down the feed tube (cast into head) and stopping at the lifter since there would be no available passage for it to continue.

PanzerSD · #18 10-15-2009, 11:40 PM

Another question, I've read the procedures from the Manual, over and over and over.
They talk about bringing #1 to TDC, and then they go thru the procedure, but at the end, they talk about re-installing the rocker arm that they didn't mention how or why to remove.....my only sticking point, otherwise I'm good to go for this weekend...

gs sparhawk · #19 10-15-2009, 11:57 PM

Rockers MUST be matched to old cam lobes if using used cams. If not, NEW cam=NEW rockers, or ---a sad, ruined cam.

And, as recommended to me by the MB guru, Roy, at this site, the right side oil supply is traditionally less than the left side because of the routing. And, be sure to replace the oil supply tubes--as your broken ones suggest.

And---I've run my 450 without the covers but oil goes down the outside of the block & will smoke like crazy until burnt off later. Some rags at the edge should catch a lot of it.

Oh, and by the way--don't let the chain get away from you. Disconnect the clip and tie the ends up and away from the work while keeping tension on them so you don't lose the timing on the rest of the system. Put the ends together in the same spot on the sprocket after placing the timing marks at the same place you had them. This is a busy job open to a few mistakes but can be done if done carefully with planning. The tensioning rail on the right side will probably push out and appear to shorten the chain but it can be nudged back in so you can get the ends of the chain together again.

bon apitite

PanzerSD · #20 10-16-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gs sparhawk

Rockers MUST be matched to old cam lobes if using used cams. If not, NEW cam=NEW rockers, or ---a sad, ruined cam.

And, as recommended to me by the MB guru, Roy, at this site, the right side oil supply is traditionally less than the left side because of the routing. And, be sure to replace the oil supply tubes--as your broken ones suggest.

And---I've run my 450 without the covers but oil goes down the outside of the block & will smoke like crazy until burnt off later. Some rags at the edge should catch a lot of it.

bon apitite

Oh yeah, for sure, I'll definately be matching cams and rockers and lifters.
but I was wondering about the single rocker removed in the manual. seems a little odd that they would remove #1 rocker arm, only to reinstall it without touching any of the other ones, or even mentioning it removal..

PanzerSD · #21 10-16-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gs sparhawk

Oh, and by the way--don't let the chain get away from you. Disconnect the clip and tie the ends up and away from the work while keeping tension on them so you don't lose the timing on the rest of the system. Put the ends together in the same spot on the sprocket after placing the timing marks at the same place you had them. This is a busy job open to a few mistakes but can be done if done carefully with planning. The tensioning rail on the right side will probably push out and appear to shorten the chain but it can be nudged back in so you can get the ends of the chain together again.

bon apitite

I was going to use a sprocket holder. keep the gear meshed and tensioned without having to undo the chain.

Tomguy · #22 10-16-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PanzerSD

Returning to topic: When I swap the cams over, because I'm retro fitting a solid ball stud cam, towers and rockers, the manual sez that I need to block an oil passage that feeds the previous hydraulic ball studs.

I'm looking @ the manual, it doesn't state that in what I'm looking at:

"Note: Cylinder heads with longitudinal oil duct and feed bores for hydraulic valve clearance compensating elements can be provided with valve adjusting screws for manual valve adjustment when used as spare parts."

PanzerSD · #23 10-16-2009, 09:42 AM

http://handbook.w116.org/Engine\107\M117_45\05-220.pdf

Page 7 step 15: "Install rocker arm again at same place."

Tomguy · #24 10-16-2009, 11:17 AM

Those are different than what I have, that may be a newer PDF; that does indicate plugging the hole to the hydraulic system. I do not know if the mechanical studs would block it on their own or not, I had assumed so. However, if not, you may want to block them off and thereby increase oil flow to the cams and rockers.

BTW, unrelated but it's in your sig: You have a washer fluid heater. That doesn't crack the windshield when it's below 20°F?

PanzerSD · #25 10-16-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomguy

BTW, unrelated but it's in your sig: You have a washer fluid heater. That doesn't crack the windshield when it's below 20°F?

You think it would, but it doesn't. We've installed them on trucks that go up north on the ice roads without any trouble...one did catch fire tho, but he installed it himself, electrical fault. At -20c by the time the water reaches the windshield it's cooled quite a bit, but in summer, it'll scald your skin, but damn it sure does get the bugs off..

tinypanzer · #26 12-08-2009, 08:35 PM

How did this work out for you?

My indie mechanic recently replaced 2 rockers and the timing chain and chain guides. He also replaced the oiler tubes because they are only $12 and according to the mechanic when they get old they like to pop off their mounts thereby depriving the cam of oil.

Just curious as to how all this worked out for you.

PanzerSD · #27 12-08-2009, 11:11 PM

It hasn't worked out at all yet. but I have determined that the lacking sound is infact two VERY horribly worn camshafts, for which I now have replacements, I'm just waiting on some oil tube fittings.

I'm taking the PRISTINE cams, towers and rocker arms from a M117.983 engine and swapping ALL the valve train with my M117.985, to gain hopefully a longer life and a little bumpier cam. The first solid three days off I have after getting the tube fittings is when it will happen.

PanzerSD · #28 12-08-2009, 11:11 PM

and BECAUSE I'm using the cam towers from the X.983 I don't have to plug that hole in the rear towers!

GGR · #29 12-09-2009, 07:39 AM

Hi,

I've been considering doing a similar job, but I wonder if it will work in my case. I would like to retrofit solid lifters, towers rockers and camshafts out of an M116 3.5 into a euro 5.0 M117 equipped with hydraulic lifters cams etc. The reason for this is that the profile of the 3.5 camshafts is much lumpier and I would like to see if that benefits the 5.0.

But having cam covers off both engines the other day I noted that the towers on the 5.0 are quite bigger and taller compared to the 3.5 ones. Is it a question of solid lifters versus hydraulic lifters system difference, or is it that the system on the later 5.0 is completely different? Do you have that same size difference between both your M117 engines?

Thanks!

PanzerSD · #30 12-09-2009, 08:44 AM

The only difference between these two engines that I have is that the .983 is a solid lifter cam and the 985 is hydraulic. I know that the cylinder head assembly from a 3.5 will fit on an M117.
If the cam towers are taller, then you may run into some timing chain issues as the taller cam towers might need a longer timing chain.