Project Smokey Wagon 2014! - Mostly just noob questions inside. W123 1985 300TD - Page 10 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

WarTowels · #**136** 03-16-2016, 03:11 PM

Ordered all the parts in order to replace the grommet. Also ordered a new OE oil pan. I found that my current pan, the P/O must have hit something and had the pan repaired. Looks like there was some braising or something done to it, but it's seeping oil.

Going top to bottom and cleaning up all the oil I can find... should take many days to achieve.

I have some questions for you kind folks:

What is the seal around the blue thing? Seems pretty oily, I imagine it's failing?

What is the sensor with the nipple on it?

Any thoughts on where my oil might be coming from? It seems like around the very plugged up EGR there was lots of oil. Also, oil on the bottom side of the cold side of the turbo.

I purchased an EGR block off kit, based on the findings I think I won't be losing much by installing it.

ROLLGUY · #**137** 03-16-2016, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarTowels

Ordered all the parts in order to replace the grommet. Also ordered a new OE oil pan. I found that my current pan, the P/O must have hit something and had the pan repaired. Looks like there was some braising or something done to it, but it's seeping oil.

Going top to bottom and cleaning up all the oil I can find... should take many days to achieve.

I have some questions for you kind folks:

What is the seal around the blue thing? Seems pretty oily, I imagine it's failing?

What is the sensor with the nipple on it?

Any thoughts on where my oil might be coming from? It seems like around the very plugged up EGR there was lots of oil. Also, oil on the bottom side of the cold side of the turbo.

I purchased an EGR block off kit, based on the findings I think I won't be losing much by installing it.

The seal is part of the ARV (air relief valve). It does a similar job as the waste gate, as it dumps boost from the cold side, the waste gate dumps it from the hot. It is not needed in my opinion, and I usually disconnect all vacuum to them (YMMV). The sensor is a temp sensor for what I don't know (EGR control?), but the wire comes from around the coolant pump area, and may be hidden from view because of the air cleaner. As far as the carbon and oil buildup, the crankcase ventilation goes into the turbo intake air stream, and not through an oil separator on an '85. The turbo ingests all of the oil/gasses that come from the crankcase. Earlier models wit an oil separator do not get as badly gunked up.

Mölyapina · #**138** 03-16-2016, 06:21 PM

You are a brave man, these engines are grime magnets.

Also, I think yours is my favorite username on PP.

WarTowels · #**139** 03-17-2016, 10:49 AM

Haha! Thanks =)

I won't get it 100%, but I need to get it clean enough that I can spot where any potential oil leaks are. I want to fix the easy ones at least...

I installed the EGR delete last night after cleaning and I'm really happy with the extra room it's created. I'm tempted to pull out my non-functional A/C and Cruise control and maybe switch to a cone filter to really open up the cluttered engine bay. That would let me reduce the clutter quite a bit with no functionality loss. Toss everything in a box incase the desire to fix those bits arises.

In progress:

vwnate1 · #**140** 03-17-2016, 03:25 PM

FWIW ;

Before you go tearing the SLS apart , take the time to clean out the oil reservoir .

I discovered some boob had filled mine with ATF at one point and the bottom was still 1/4" thick with nasty looking slimy dirty grimy crud

.

It was a seriously fiddly job to clean it all out , then I replaced the filter and replenished it with the correct oil and it works fine .

As soon as the oil turns dark again (it uses a clear Mineral based oil) I'll go back in and clean it out again .

Oil and sweat are *MUCH* cheaper and easier than rebuilding the leveling valve , replacing the spheres and so on .

WarTowels · #**141** 03-17-2016, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vwnate1

FWIW ;

Before you go tearing the SLS apart , take the time to clean out the oil reservoir .

I discovered some boob had filled mine with ATF at one point and the bottom was still 1/4" thick with nasty looking slimy dirty grimy crud

.

It was a seriously fiddly job to clean it all out , then I replaced the filter and replenished it with the correct oil and it works fine .

As soon as the oil turns dark again (it uses a clear Mineral based oil) I'll go back in and clean it out again .

Oil and sweat are *MUCH* cheaper and easier than rebuilding the leveling valve , replacing the spheres and so on .

Interesting. To be honest, this has been pushed way way back on the list of priorities. The car still rides quite well without the SLS system, no real complaints there. I have oil leaking out and some water leaking in- my two issues that are taking precedence. =)

vwnate1 · #**142** 03-18-2016, 12:22 AM

Well and good but always be proactive .

FWIW , you can take German vehicles farther apart than you can get parts , this means often you can actually FIX a thing instead of replacing it with some poorly made new part .

WarTowels · #**143** 03-19-2016, 04:38 PM

Proactive on a 30+ year old vehicle with a laundry list of issues? I have a life =)

Couple questions coming soon...

WarTowels · #**144** 03-19-2016, 05:57 PM

My replacement oil pan and gasket arrived Friday, hooray! The OEM is seeping oil and it would be nice to put on a nice and clean new one. I placed the pan down on the gasket and found they are not a match. Both parts are listed as compatible with a 1985 300TD. So at least one of them is wrong... I'm betting the pan.

After cleaning up the top area of the turbo and manifold, I started up VIN to see how it was running after replacing all of the fuel return lines with new Mercedes hose (who knew they were tan to start?) as well as the EGR delete and Trap block off. The car seemed to run really nicely! Maybe the best yet. Could be in my head, but I feel like the car revs and feels smoother even in idle. Also, for more work room I had the intake hose off so the turbo was sucking air freely (garaged). Sounded pretty good! I have a spare K&N cone filter and am tempted o build a short ram intake to test out the noise as well as create more room in the engine bay. Behind the passenger headlight seems like a suitably dry location?

Anyway, after running the engine for a bit I gave it some revs a few times to get the turbo sucking air more.

This was the immediate result and I'd like all of your input:

This gap has always seemed large to me, but I'm not sure. I noticed for the first time it actually moves then you increase revs. At anyrate, it's spitting out oil like crazy and seems to be the source of my upper oil leak as well as the culprit for gunking up the EGR.

There seems to be a port before the turbine (is that connected to that aforementioned ARV?) that appears to be leaking oil. I suspect that is then sucked into the turbo and ejected out of the first image. This would explain the leak above, the gunked up EGR and smoke when boosting on the highway - sucking in oil.

If the above is correct, does anyone know what the source of that leak is? Is this a gasket swap or more of a turbo rebuild situation, I'm not too familiar here...

vwnate1 · #**145** 03-19-2016, 11:50 PM

FWIW ;

I have a life albeit a very busy one

.

I'm a Journeyman Mechanic so I like to keep things in good order , this $ave$ lots of $ in the long run , makes working on your old vehicles nicer and easier too .

I tried my hand at rebuilding my own turbo charger and it worked out fine and works *much* better now .

I am not sure about your other questions other than to say that piece shouldn't move , ever .

WarTowels · #**146** 03-20-2016, 01:09 AM

it's nice to know you have a life, I wasn't implying you didn't though. 😀👍

Everything in life has a time value. Only so much time can be reasonably spent on what for me is a side car I own for fun and to learn more about diesels on. It's old and you could look anywhere at it and find a project, that's much of the appeal. If I intended to fix everything on it, I'd have never bought it though. It would be so much easier and cheaper to just buy a nicer one! I fix what I can as I go, which so far has been quite a bit.

Anyway, My turbo definitely moves that piece. It seemed to go in and out during revs... Maybe I'll snap a quick video.

ROLLGUY · #**147** 03-20-2016, 08:56 AM

If you can find a Federal turbo, and replace the entire cold side, that would get rid of the ARV completely. A rebuild would be a good thing as well. A kit is around $50 and it is not a hard job. The oil is probably going past the bearing into the cold side intake stream at idle. At idle, the oil pressure is greater than the boost pressure in the cold side, so oil gets past the worn out bearing and seal. At higher boost, the oil is kept out of the cold side by that pressure. I had a bad turbo in my Mitsubishi that would make a smoke cloud so big at idle (I had to turn off the engine at a stoplight to prevent said cloud), Batman would love to have it as an option on the Batmobile. At speed (boost), there was no more smoke than normal.
After you rebuild the turbo, your oil consumption and smoking will be gone. Your intake tract will be cleaner as well........Rich

vwnate1 · #**148** 03-20-2016, 09:13 AM

Thanx for that explanation Rich ! .

I have always wondered how well the turbo's shaft seals work , they don't look impressive .

I used the turbo rebuild kit with the 360° thrust support , as you said over hauling the turbo isn't difficult , just a bit time consuming if you do it right .

BTW WarTowels : I took no offense

.

Gear Heads like to work on cars when others are playing the ponies or chasing skirts etc.....

WarTowels · #**149** 03-20-2016, 01:44 PM

That's an interesting idea about trying to find the cold side of a Federal T3 turbo! That would be a clever way to do away with the AVR.

If I did that, the turbo would still need a rebuild though if I understand correctly. Also, my car doesn't really smoke at idle, but it does smoke under full boost.

Will any old Garrett T3 rebuild kit work or does it need to be specific to a .45 trim or even specific to a Mercedes?

Other thought I had while talking to a friend, if oil is getting out between the turbo and the intake manifold, aren't I losing air and pressure there as well?

ROLLGUY · #**150** 03-20-2016, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarTowels

That's an interesting idea about trying to find the cold side of a Federal T3 turbo! That would be a clever way to do away with the AVR.

If I did that, the turbo would still need a rebuild though if I understand correctly. Also, my car doesn't really smoke at idle, but it does smoke under full boost.

Will any old Garrett T3 rebuild kit work or does it need to be specific to a .45 trim or even specific to a Mercedes?

Other thought I had while talking to a friend, if oil is getting out between the turbo and the intake manifold, aren't I losing air and pressure there as well?

Yes you would be loosing a little pressure, but not enough to notice any lack of power. Replace the sleeve Orings when you have the turbo out. Yes you should rebuild the turbo, even if you keep the ARV cold side. The Mitsubishi turbo I had, I am sure was very worn out, and much worse than yours. I imagine the oil in the air stream does not mix with the air at idle in yours (stays in the turbo and manifold), but may be forced into the intake during a boost situation (reason for smoke at boost, not at idle). That may be why you have the opposite situation as my Mits. Also, on the Mits, the outlet from the turbo faces down, and the intake manifold is lower than the turbo. That is probably why all the oil getting past the seals goes directly into the intake on the Mits. The 'Benz is not quite that way.

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