617 IP Removal and Install - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

stano316 · #1 10-09-2016, 09:46 AM

I need to remove the IP off my 84 300sd, it is 17 degrees off time (41 BTDC) from the PO who had a new timing chain installed. It runs, but no power, exhaust smells like diesel, and black smoke.

I just purchased the IP Timing Tool, new gasket, and a gasket for the Oil Filter Housing. I have modified wrenches for the IP (made them myself), and a drip timing tool.

What is the best way to go about this? Any tips?

Also when reinstalling the the IP with the timing marks set and with the timing tool installed, crank set at 15 degrees ATDC, is there anything else I need to worry about. I thought I read somewhere, something needs to be held open? forget what though.

Thanks

ROLLGUY · #2 10-09-2016, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stano316

I need to remove the IP off my 84 300sd, it is 17 degrees off time (41 BTDC) from the PO who had a new timing chain installed. It runs, but no power, exhaust smells like diesel, and black smoke.

I just purchased the IP Timing Tool, new gasket, and a gasket for the Oil Filter Housing. I have modified wrenches for the IP (made them myself), and a drip timing tool.

What is the best way to go about this? Any tips?

Also when reinstalling the the IP with the timing marks set and with the timing tool installed, crank set at 15 degrees ATDC, is there anything else I need to worry about. I thought I read somewhere, something needs to be held open? forget what though.

Thanks

Yes the "throttle" needs to be held all the way open ("full load" or "full rack" I think it is called in a Diesel). You also need to have a good primer pump. I have always done it by lining the wide spline up with the mark on the front of the pump, and the timing at 24-26 deg BTDC, but having the later pump with the timing port, it is just as easy to do it that way. If you can buy or rent the electronic timing tool (A-B light), that makes it easy, but doing it the old fashioned way (drip) works just fine......Rich

BillGrissom · #3 10-09-2016, 03:40 PM

If you never loosened one: 3 bolts at the front, 1 at the rear. A 1984 will have the rack-position sensor, (at least in CA), which makes getting a wrench on one front bolt tough for me. Setting by the crank mark initially is good, then follow w/ the drip method.

Understand the main point of the drip method. You are trying to find the cut-off point where IP #1 inlet valve port closes and you no longer get flow when you pump the primer valve. I have always found it to be a very sharp point (within ~1 deg). Count drops if you want. The main thing is that you will get just a slight flow at that point. Many here set it at 27 deg BTDC instead of the manual's 24 deg. I did so in both 300D's, but couldn't tell a difference in idle or mpg.

stano316 · #4 10-09-2016, 03:56 PM

Great, thanks for all the tips. I started removing all the vacuum lines, and was able to remove the oil canister lines, I made the modified wrenches to do so, and they worked out well.

I have loosened the pump before, and made the wrenches to do that as well.

So when I install the pump, the rack needs to be held open, timing marks aligned, crank at 15 degrees ATDC and IP tool installed. When do I let the rack go back to its resting position, after the IP is bolted in? What does holding it open do?

Diesel911 · #5 10-09-2016, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stano316

I need to remove the IP off my 84 300sd, it is 17 degrees off time (41 BTDC) from the PO who had a new timing chain installed. It runs, but no power, exhaust smells like diesel, and black smoke.

I just purchased the IP Timing Tool, new gasket, and a gasket for the Oil Filter Housing. I have modified wrenches for the IP (made them myself), and a drip timing tool.

What is the best way to go about this? Any tips?

Also when reinstalling the the IP with the timing marks set and with the timing tool installed, crank set at 15 degrees ATDC, is there anything else I need to worry about. I thought I read somewhere, something needs to be held open? forget what though.

Thanks

It needs to be 15 degrees ATDC after the compression stroke. When you stick the IP back in try to get the studs in the middle of the kidney slots on the IP flange.

ROLLGUY · #6 10-09-2016, 07:02 PM

I don't think the rack needs anything done to it unless the drip method is used (I could be wrong). With the timing tool, the pump is locked in place, so as long as the crank is in the proper position, the IP just gets bolted in the center of the kidney slots (as stated above). It could be that it still needs to be drip timed, and that is why I start and end with the drip timing method. That way I know it is right....Rich

stano316 · #7 10-09-2016, 08:26 PM

Ok, I noticed that when the tang is visible, and mid way seen through the hole where the IP timing tool goes, the timing marks on the front of IP don't line up. They are in the vicinity of each other, but about 5 teeth off. IF using the tool, will those marks line up? and if they don't what should I do?

Also, then so it stands, I only need the rack held open to do the drip timing, not to install it?

Diesel911 · #8 10-09-2016, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stano316

Ok, I noticed that when the tang is visible, and mid way seen through the hole where the IP timing tool goes, the timing marks on the front of IP don't line up. They are in the vicinity of each other, but about 5 teeth off. IF using the tool, will those marks line up? and if they don't what should I do?

Also, then so it stands, I only need the rack held open to do the drip timing, not to install it?

That is correct the timing marks on the front are for when you stick the Pump in at 24 degrees before top dead center.

No one has come up with a reason why Bosch decided to have the timing 2 different ways but that is the way it is.

stano316 · #9 10-10-2016, 06:24 AM

Great, thanks Diesel911, I was a little confused at first, and couldn't figure out why that would be. Hoping to have this wrapped up by the end of the week.

Diesel911 · #10 10-10-2016, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stano316

Great, thanks Diesel911, I was a little confused at first, and couldn't figure out why that would be. Hoping to have this wrapped up by the end of the week.

See post #24

There is a diagram showing the orientation of the Timing locking pin to what is the Governor Weight Carrier that has the Tab on one side of it.

My best guess on why the Tab is located where it is is that when they decided to put a tab on they did not want to cange the design of the Governor Weight Carrier so it could be positioned so the Timing Loicking Pin could be used at 24 degrees before top dead center.
But, know one I have read of has the real explaination for that.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/376354-idle-smoke-300sdl.html

stano316 · #11 10-10-2016, 07:18 PM

Good info, and thanks. We shall see in a couple of days what happens.