Problem with IP removal from 617 engine - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

otto huber · #1 12-01-2016, 12:53 AM

In the last month I've tried pulling an injection pump from 2 separate 617 engines with no luck. I pulled one off of a 617 engine about a year ago with no problem and another one off of a 616 engine way back when. In the past I've removed the three 13mm nuts at the front of the pump and then slid the pump back and out. Could there have been some type of catastrophic engine failure on the last two engines that I tried which kept the pump from sliding out? The pumps would slide from side to side, but not out.

Rogviler · #2 12-01-2016, 01:06 AM

There's also the one at the back of the IP, in case you didn't know. It's such a pain that I could totally see someone leaving it off, which would explain the other one being easy and just having three nuts.

If you just didn't mention it then that's mighty peculiar to have two impossible to remove.

-Rog

otto huber · #3 12-01-2016, 01:19 AM

Thanks. Is the third 4th nut also 13mm? Where exactly is it located? Seems odd that there would be so much play in the pump with a 4th nut yet to be loosened or removed.

Rogviler · #4 12-01-2016, 02:14 AM

It's right at the back underneath, in the vicinity of where the oil cooler lines come out of the oil filter housing. You can probably see it better from underneath, but it's easier to get to from the top in my experience. It is 13mm and like I said it's such a pain to get to. I wouldn't be surprised if many are loose just because it's often easier to loosen something in a tight spot than to tighten it, hence being able to move it a little.

-Rog

engatwork · #5 12-01-2016, 06:11 AM

IIRC there are three 10mm fasteners holding the bracket at the back of the pump.

Diseasel300 · #6 12-01-2016, 09:24 AM

Out of curiosity, you DID remove the sprocket bolt, right?

On my SDL, the O-Ring seal was cooked and ROCK HARD. So hard, that it made it difficult to pull the IP. I wound up rocking it up and down slightly as I pulled it out. Took a few minutes of wiggling and pulling, but it finally came out, O-ring broke into 3 pieces in the process.

Dan Stokes · #7 12-01-2016, 09:53 AM

I know the guys say that they remove theirs with the oil filter in place but I had to remove mine to get the pump out. It also makes that rear bolt/bracket easier to get to.

Dan

jay_bob · #8 12-01-2016, 10:50 AM

From Dieselmeken's college of diesel knowledge..

https://youtu.be/_cIl-F7PqPA

ROLLGUY · #9 12-01-2016, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diseasel300

Out of curiosity, you DID remove the sprocket bolt, right?

On my SDL, the O-Ring seal was cooked and ROCK HARD. So hard, that it made it difficult to pull the IP. I wound up rocking it up and down slightly as I pulled it out. Took a few minutes of wiggling and pulling, but it finally came out, O-ring broke into 3 pieces in the process.

Your SDL has a different pump. It has a center bolt that must be removed to allow the pump to be removed (vac pump needs to be removed to have access to the reverse thread center bolt). Otto Huber has a 617 which has no center bolt, or Oring. The 617 pump has a three hole (actually four if you count the large center hole

) gasket only. It is possible to remove the rear bracket with the oil filter stand in place, but it is not an easy job. The filter stand gasket is a common oil leak source, so I would pull the stand and replace the gasket as part the I P removal job. I usually put the bracket back on, as it holds the other end of the return spring. However, I seldom put the bolt holding the bracket to the pump back in (pain in the a** to do!).

otto huber · #10 12-01-2016, 11:53 AM

Thanks for all of the replies fellas. That video is really helpful, and I'll have more questions to ask regarding engine timing if I go so far as to replace the IP myself. Right now I'm looking to have a spare on hand since two of the barrel o-rings on my pump are leaking, but it isn't too bad. In case you're wondering, I did replace the copper crush washers below the delivery valves. Getting down to those o-rings would require taking it to a shop and I can't afford that.

Also, the engine stalls after about 2 hours of highway driving, and is remedied only by bumping up the RPM to 900RPM. I've changed all of the injectors, so I'm pretty sure it's a problem with the IP.

otto huber · #11 12-01-2016, 06:01 PM

I had some time this morning to head back to the yard and even after removing the back bracket from the engine block, the IP still seemed to be stuck in the timing gear.

I removed two 13mm bolts that held the back bracket to the engine block. After doing this, the IP moved back about a 1/4" from the 3 front bolts and I could move the back of the IP in a circular motion. There was nothing hanging up the pump in the back, it just didn't want to pull out. There was no way of me turning the crankshaft. Does the crank need to be 24 BTDC?

ROLLGUY · #12 12-01-2016, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by otto huber

I had some time this morning to head back to the yard and even after removing the back bracket from the engine block, the IP still seemed to be stuck in the timing gear.

I removed two 13mm bolts that held the back bracket to the engine block. After doing this, the IP moved back about a 1/4" from the 3 front bolts and I could move the back of the IP in a circular motion. There was nothing hanging up the pump in the back, it just didn't want to pull out. There was no way of me turning the crankshaft. Does the crank need to be 24 BTDC?

The bracket has to be totally out of the way, and the pump should come out. Just having it unbolted will not allow the pump to be removed.

otto huber · #13 12-02-2016, 03:04 AM

Okay, now I can picture it. The mating surface for the oil filter canister protrudes from the block just enough to snag the bracket. The car I attempted to pull the IP from had it's transmission pulled and only one of the engine arms is bolted to a motor mount. There was no way I was getting underneath that engine.

OM617YOTA · #14 12-03-2016, 09:18 PM

Just pulled the IP off my spare motor, in preparation for installing it on my in-use motor. I can attest that it is possible to remove the IP without removing the oil filter stand.

Easiest way I found to remove the 4th bolt on the back of the IP was a pivoting ratcheting wrench. If you don't have a set of these, get a set and you'll wonder how you got anything done without them. Hard for me to justify spending $100 on a set, but the $20 Harbor Freight version has turned out to be pretty good.

otto huber · #15 12-07-2016, 04:16 PM

I was able to pull an injection pump off of a 1984 300D this morning. Fortunately, someone had already removed the oil cooler lines, so removing that back bolt wasn't too bad.

Because the pump is off of an '84, I can use this tool to time the pump:

Mercedes Diesel Engine Injection Pump Pin Timing Tool | eBay

Does anyone have a link to a good thread on timing the pump with this tool? From what I've read, this is a lock pin and you rotate the engine until you meet significant resistance. What you do after that, I have no idea.