OK here goes. In got the car home and I'm checking things out ('82 240D). The PO even dumber than I am by the looks of the vac system.
Vacuum system corrected and in tact.
New fuel hoses and filters before the IP
All injectors and lines were found loose at the injectors and the pump.

So I pulled each injector out for a look. Nothing realy obviously damaged;. I hooked up a battery and gave it a crank or two. It sounds normal for all I know. I have no compression tester at this time but she sound like each cylinder is there.. The thing I did notice is very little fuel coming from th IP. I kind of expected gushing amounts from each line, but only got spit.

Does it sound as if the IP died to any of you?
Second question, where can a backyard guy like me find a high pressure compression tester reasonably?

__________________
1984 280SEL, 62,000 miles
Euro model in the USA
1983 300D (Totaled out 10/2004)
New Factory Mint Green paint
Palomino int
1982 240D (Steak dinner for two)

FineOlBenz,

At highway speed the engine spins at about 3,000 rpm or so, which means 1500 injections per cylinder, per minute, or 6,000 total per minute, or 360,000 per hour. In an hour at highway speeds you use roughly a gallon of fuel. So each spritz is about 1/360,000 gallon. At idle it is even less. So don't expect a gusher from the injectors.

If you have loose connections, the fuel lines will allow air to enter, especially when the engine is shut down. As the fuel leaks out, air leaks in. This can get into the pump and cause the pump to get air bound. Basically the fuel is not a compressible fluid and air is. Since the pump was designed for fuel, it does not work right on air. So, tighten the fuel lines carefully.

Good luck, Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Sooooo
I'm looking at a compression problem.

I won't ask "How do I adjust the compression?" I don't want the computer system to split an electron gut laughing.

It seems odd but there are several diesel engine failures in extreem cold weather. This car failed to start one cold January morning. I've been checking the posts and there have been several others also. I wonder if there is an oiling problem in cold weather. I think there are some oil knozzels directed at the wrist pin and cylinder walls, if these fail in cold weather due to oil viscosity, that would explain a lot. On several occassions the compression dropped to 50 or 60 psi on all cylinders all at once????????????????????????????????????

Then again I've noticed several at 220 to 260K miles dead due to lack of compression.

__________________
1984 280SEL, 62,000 miles
Euro model in the USA
1983 300D (Totaled out 10/2004)
New Factory Mint Green paint
Palomino int
1982 240D (Steak dinner for two)

Jim Smith,

I think at highway speed you will use about 2 gallons per hour (I don't know of any MB Diesel that gett 60 MPG), so you calculations are off by 50%.

Also, the IP does not get air bound. The over flow is at the top of the IP and any air goes out there and back to the fuel tank as long as fuel is being pumped to the IP. Any air in the lines goes out the bleeder hole in the in the top of the secondary fuel filter. If the hole in the fuel line is so large that air is sucked in by the fuel pump instead of fuel, then fuel starvation to the fuel pump is the problem.

P E H

PEH,

That is right, I was off by 50% or more. I used numbers I could add and subtract, and multiply and divide late last night. The 3,000 rpm was probably wrong too but it was a nice number. Considering he probably did not see the injector squirts at anything like 3,000 rpm (more like an idle setting if he was cranking with the starter motor) the point was it is not a gusher - so don't be alarmed by the relatively wimpy spritz and suspect the injection pump is sick.

As for the air getting into the fuel lines, it really does not matter where in the line between the injection pump guts and the injector nozzle you get air. The air is compressible and the system is designed to have a non-compressible fluid so that the pressure builds and pops the injector in a predictable relationship to the rate of rotation of the shaft in the fuel injection pump. The injector is essentially a simple relief valve and once the set pressure is reached it opens, and stays open until the pressure drops. If there is air anywhere in the system, that tiny stroke of the pump will not be enough to compress an air bubble of any volume, and push the intended quantity of Diesel fuel through the injector. The net effect is the engine won't start readily or at all.

The point was that FineOlBenz reported the lines were loose and leaking and that would contribute to a hard starting condition. Given a loose connection, the fuel in the line will leak out when you shut the machine down. Air will leak in, and the pump to the injector connection is no longer "solid" resulting in a need to do crank for a long time, or use the hand pump, to re-establish a solid line of Diesel fuel between the injection pump and the injector nozzles. Makes for hard starting.

So, if I were FineOlBenz, I would fix the leaks and try to start the car again. The leaking lines surely did not improve the starting performance.

Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

Thanks for the info on little squirts from the IP. The glow system tests out fine so all I'm lacking is compression (a new motor, win the Lotto and so on). I'm not out much on this car if any as I traded a guy steak dinner for two for the car. So this project is just to keep my sanity.

I have now removed injectors and lines in preperation for the compression test. I also put some auto trans fluid down each hole to free up any ring problems. I'll let this set for the time being then flush each hole out and re oil. Heck I may even get up the energy to run the valves too.

__________________
1984 280SEL, 62,000 miles
Euro model in the USA
1983 300D (Totaled out 10/2004)
New Factory Mint Green paint
Palomino int
1982 240D (Steak dinner for two)

take the glow plugs out, reducing compression and allowing the starter to spin the engine over fast. crank until you get a good cloud of diesel out of each gow pug, or if you don't, you know the fue delivery system is bad.

__________________
71 220D 169K wrecked
83 240D 118K sweet 4 speed
91 350SDL (one of the 60% good engines) 156K
84 300d (loaner to my sister) 189K
79 300SD (partswagen)
86 420SEL partswagen
70 220d (partswagen)
68 280s GASSER!!! under construction now
85 300sd 310K miles winter beater car retired
93 300d 2.5 turbo 168K wife's car
83 280SL euro 5 speed 155K
69 250S newest project 54K

I have had a situation where the IP had air in it, and despite operating the primer pump more than 100 times, and cranking for extended periods, could not get it to fire. I loosened the banjo bolt at the IP "fuel in" line and operated the priming pump until air stopped coming out (about 5 - 10 times IIRC). I then tightened the banjo bolt and the engine started normally.
I called this "air bound", as fuel was not being delivered to the injectors because of the air in the IP. It may have a more correct name, but this was caused by air getting into the IP, nothing else.
I know several 300D drivers who also state that when air gets into the IP, you then need to bleed it manually.

__________________
Tony from West Oz.
Fatmobile 3 84 300D 295kkm Silver grey/Blue int. 2 tank WVO - Recipient of TurboDesel engine.
Josephine '82 300D 390kkm White/Palamino int.
Elizabeth '81 280E, sporting a '79 300D engine.
Lucille '87 W124 300D non-turbo 6 cylinder OM603, Pearl Grey with light grey interior


Various parts cars including 280E, 230C & 300D in various states of disassembly.

Hello... Call Phil here at Fastlane. They are selling a diesel gauge for $67.50 including one adapter. I chose the injector adapter.

__________________
Mr Goodfahrt (pronounced FAIRT... means "good trip" in German)

1982 300D Turbo Pastel Gray (off-white) 200k+(?)
newbie but willing

Tony,

What you have is a bad primer pump (PP). If the PP is working correctly, it wll push the air out of the IP but you need enough pressure to overcome the IP overflow valve.

I have had completely empty IP and pumping the PP is all it took to prime the IP. By releaseing the banjo fitting, you eliminated the need for the pressure to force open the IP overflow valve because your PP is defective even though it will pump fuel if there is no restriction.

P E H

Well, in some cases, 3,000 rpm is a highway speed. On a turbocharged 78-84 OM617, that equates to about 70mph. I guess you're saying that 3,000 was not a nice number for highway speeds. Or else, I completly misunderstood your post and typed all of this just to feel important.:p

-Joe

__________________
'81 MB 300SD, '82 MB 300D Turbo (sold/RIP), '04 Lincoln Town Car Ultimate

Sooner or later every car falls apart, ours does it later!
-German Narrator in a MB Promotion Film about the then brand new W123.

I thought 3000 RPM for a highway speed was about right.

P E H

PEH,
On my wagon with an turbo OM617 3,000 rpm is about 70mph. My guess is you need to wind a 240D a bit tighter to get to and maintain that speed.

__________________
LRG
1987 300D Turbo 175K
2006 Toyota Prius, efficent but no soul
1985 300 TDT(130K miles of trouble free motoring)now sold

H-townbenzoboy,

I was not using numbers to be specific, so 3,000 rpm along with a few other numbers for the exercise were used to make the math simple. The point was to show the amount of Diesel fuel squirted out the injector nozzle each time it squirts is very small. In my haste at 3:25 a.m., I made an error in my simplifying effort that equated to the car getting 60 mpg instead of 30 mpg. The point should still have been made - there was probably not anything wrong with the injection pump, once it was primed, since 1/180,000 of a gallon is still a little bit. In my statement about the 3,000 rpm I was just noting I picked it to do the math and keep it simple, and 3,000 rpm may or may not be a typical highway engine speed, when you are getting 30 miles per gallon.

Jim

__________________
Own:
1986 Euro 190E 2.3-16 (291,000 miles),
1998 E300D TurboDiesel, 231,000 miles -purchased with 45,000,
1988 300E 5-speed 252,000 miles,
1983 240D 4-speed, purchased w/136,000, now with 222,000 miles.
2009 ML320CDI Bluetec, 89,000 miles

Owned:
1971 220D (250,000 miles plus, sold to father-in-law),
1975 240D (245,000 miles - died of body rot),
1991 350SD (176,560 miles, weakest Benz I have owned),
1999 C230 Sport (45,400 miles),
1982 240D (321,000 miles, put to sleep)

If you pulled injectors. Hopefully you took a magnet and got the little metal washers that are under the injectors. Called heat shields. If not when you crank it over it will launch them and your'll never find them. Ask me how I know. Charlie