Seems as if the Glock 23 would be plenty for carry or home defense. The ammo would be rare and expensive. It would be very unique however.

Does the firearm have a specific purpose?

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1974 240D 3.0L 4(M) - 250K -OM617.910 + 300D FW + Rajay turbo power!
1977 6.9 3(A) - 84k

Depending on your hand size, yes. 40 S&W is not that expensive and rare. I also reload

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BAV--my response wasn't directed to you--I thought your post was very informative and to the point. Directed at the folks who responded to "anyone know about this gun?" with, "why don't you get a _______like I have instead"

Whoops, I jumped subjects on that one. I meant the FN 5.7 would be rare and ammo is hard to find. My Kimber Custom is just about right for my hands.

Inversely 40S&W is available everywhere....at least around here it is.

Reloading dies for 5.7 FN would be unique. Does anyone make them? They'd definitely be needed if the P90 completed the set.

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1974 240D 3.0L 4(M) - 250K -OM617.910 + 300D FW + Rajay turbo power!
1977 6.9 3(A) - 84k

Plantman, what material is the FN 5.7 made of??

Gun collecting is interesting as is target shooting.

Get the one that captures your interest.

Most of my handguns have gone up in value. For what that is worth, they are fun to target shoot also!

Denis

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

I was a company armorer at Ft. Benning when the army transitioned from the 1911 .45 to the M9 (Beretta 92 SB-F). I found the M9’s pistol grips to be too wide and that weapon feels awkward in my hand. That is only my opinion. Some people like the way that pistol fits their hand.

My advice is to go to a gun show and pick up as many different types of pistols (and revolvers) as practical. See which one fits your hand naturally. You will know the right pistol for you when you pick it up.

For me, the moment came when I picked up a CZ-75. I thought the designer had created it especially for my hand.

Good luck

P.S. Plantman, I guess I really did not answer your question.

__________________
Anders

1995 E300
2015 VW TDI Sportwagen 15K
1977 240D (197K)
2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon (115k) (Wife's)
Gone but not forgotten:
2005 Buick LeSabre
1998 C230
1984 300D
1983 240D
1981 300SD
1974 240D
1974 Fiat 124 Spider
1968 Triumph TR250

The following is an updating of a two-part report, "Tracking The Dispute Over M9 Pistol Slide Failures," published in the 19 and 26 April 1991 editions of Gun Week.

Beretta USA's continued insistence that catastrophic slide failures of their military Model 92 SB/F (M9) pistols were caused by over-pressure ammunition has had grave doubt cast upon it by official reports obtained from the Armed Forces.

The M9 was carried by most non-special operations troops during the recently concluded Persian Gulf War... a fact dramatically confirmed the week of 25 February when TV news audiences viewed footage of an Army officer using his Beretta to prod supplicating Iraqi soldiers scrambling out of their bunker to surrender.

But reports have also surfaced that the supposedly retired Government Model .45 ACPs were used extensively throughout the Persian Gulf, primarily by Army Special Forces and Force Recon Marines, as well as various reserve units who first formed Desert Shield forces.

There have been additional reports of other M9 problems, from the shearing off of barrel lugs, to persistent cracks in the alloy frames... the very difficulty which purportedly disqualified SIG Sauer from being awarded the military's contract for 315,930 9mm sidearms. Ironically, the Department of the Army's 14 January 1985 memorandum stated that...
Beretta 92 SB-F ... was judged to have the lowest overall costs and provides further savings over the life of the weapon due to durability advantages.
A 4 December 1990 Joint Services Operational Requirements Committee meeting in Quantico, Virginia, left one attendee (who requested anonymity) with the distinct impression that the military would be looking for a new pistol "somewhere down the road."

"Let's just say that there were more services than not who were displeased with the M9," our source revealed guardedly.

Despite clear indications that the slide failure fault is one of Beretta metallurgy rather than ammunition, a greater controversy concerns who must bear the expense of making sure that the United States Military has a safe and reliably functioning pistol.

"Right now nobody's admitting anything," a ranking military officer observed, "but the real fight's going to come later over who's going to have to ante up for all the problems. It'll almost certainly wind up in a protracted court action."
No Fatalities
Whatever corrective action is currently underway appears to be at taxpayer expense, as no one has yet forced the manufacturer to make good on more than 160,000 possibly defective pistols which have resulted in significant injury to at least five members of the military since deliveries of the 92 SB/F began six years ago.

The most recent documented field injury, necessitating 28 facial stitches and repair of a broken tooth, occurred in January 1989 to a U.S. Marine training with the U.S. Air Force Military Police at Lackland Air Force Base in Texas. Despite rumors on the gun shop grapevine, there have been no confirmed fatalities as a result of the Beretta's slide failures.

Dissatisfaction with the Beretta M92 design has not been limited to the U.S. Military, for the FBI's Firearms Training Unit was clearly less than enthusiastic about the Beretta slide failure situation. AN FBI/Department of Justice 1987-1988 Report on Semi-automatic Pistols, item number five in a list of ten "bad" aspects of the Beretta was simply "Slide separations (*see commentary)."

That commentary noted:
...the Beretta M92 (was) built to U.S. Army specifications. One should understand that these specifications were:
1. Only the frame has a specified service life.
2. That service life is 5,000 rounds.
3. The slide is a disposable part.
4. 99% of the military pistols will fire only 80 rounds per year.
III. Beretta failures:

The Beretta 92 has experienced several slide separations where the slide breaks at the locking lug notches. The back half of the slide strikes the shooter. Two Navy SEALS have suffered severe facial injuries.
One particularly disturbing piece of new information was included in this "For Law Enforcement Distribution Only" document:
2. The second one failed during testing for barrel life at Fort Dix, NJ, in February 1988. This gun was magnafluxed at 6,000 rounds and no cracks or fatigue discovered. AT {sic} 6,007 rounds the slide separated.
Other sections of that commentary note that Beretta had...
...engineered a fix which prevents the separated slide from leaving the weapon-it does not prevent the slide from separating. ... Beretta says the problem is due to the use of experimental, over pressure ammunition, (specifically 147 gain subsonic).
In February 1990, Beretta without fanfare commenced shipping all of its Models 92 with that modification, but made no accommodation for retrofitting existing civilian or law enforcement models.

"While we will eventually be selling the large hammer pivot pin as a part," a source inside Beretta told the Intelligencer in the 13 April 1990 Gun Week, "slides without the cut will not fit on a pistol with a large pivot pin." The same source acknowledged that there were now nine documented military slide failures, but stuck to the official Beretta line that the source of the problem was ammunition related.

Picatinny Arsenal (NJ) documents, dated respectively "28 March 1989" and "April 1989," however, are quite specific in identifying the problems with the M9 as being metallurgical in nature.

The first, encoded "MMB-01-89" and entitled "Fracture Toughness and Charpy Impact Strength of Six Navy Slides M9 Beretta Pistol (Italy)," dealt with six slides picked at random from lot numbers...
...close to the lot numbers of two Navy slides which failed catastrophically during field use after firing at relatively low round counts, i.e., less than 5,000 rounds.
The results were revealing as researchers were able to fully characterize the microstructure, the sulphide morphology, and the element added for sulphide shape control in the AISI 8640 re-sulpherized steel.

"Of the six slides tests, five exhibited low fracture toughness..." while "all six slides exhibited the same hardness." So it was not a matter of detecting potential catastrophic slide failures with anything as relatively simple as the Rockwell hardness test.
One of the most significant differences found to correlate with the differences in fracture toughness ... was the sulphide (MnS) shape and the chemical element added to control sulphide shape. For example, the sulphides found in the low toughness slides were globular and contained tellurium (Te) as an additive (to control the shape.

The results of this work have shown that there are two types of slide materials currently being manufactured at Beretta, Italy; steel treated with Te (globular structure) which is accompanied by low fracture toughness and steel treated with Ca (longitudinal stringers) which is accompanied by high fracture toughness. It should be noted that the sulphide morphology correlation has been observed for all slides examined since the inception of the investigation of the Beretta slide failures (total of 31 slides). This result was reported to the Army Science Board during a briefing in February '89. (Emphasis added). It was also reported in past work done (as far back as April '88) in the Materials Evaluation Section, AET-M. The latter work demonstrated conclusively that the Beretta slides represent two distinct populations: one with a low Kq (fracture toughness) of about 40 ksi V in. and one with a high Kq of about 71 ksi V in.
A second document, "Fracture Toughness Evaluation of Three Failed M9 Pistol Slides", states...
While slides with adequate failure toughness do eventually fail, they do so at considerably higher round counts, and more importantly, they do so only after a plainly visible crack grows, warning the shooter of the impending failure.
All three broken slides in this test procedure were found to contain the element tellurium, leading the researchers to conclude:
1. The use of tellurium as an additive to control sulphide shape results in low fracture toughness. This finding is consistent with previous work.
2. There is an association between low round count/low fracture toughness and catastrophic failures. This has also been found in previous work.
3. The exact role of Te with respect to low fracture toughness is currently being investigated.
As readers will learn, high levels within the Military Establishment have been aware of the Tellurium Postulation for the past two years, but the issue has become one of everyone scrambling to cover their respective backsides rather than resolving the unhappy situation.

__________________
Anders

1995 E300
2015 VW TDI Sportwagen 15K
1977 240D (197K)
2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon (115k) (Wife's)
Gone but not forgotten:
2005 Buick LeSabre
1998 C230
1984 300D
1983 240D
1981 300SD
1974 240D
1974 Fiat 124 Spider
1968 Triumph TR250

I presently own and shoot frequently a sig 229(.40 for those that do not know).At one point in my life I had to carry a gun to work.It was a glock 9mm.One night I had to actually draw and as I was preparing to fire a car caught me from the blindside(not fast).hit me hard enough for the butt of said glock smacked very hard off of the "a" pillar(outside) of the 66 impala that had hit me.when I got up from the ground I noticed that the mag was on the ground and I was now sporting a large CRACK in the handle,thus mag fell out!! on the job.In glocks defense it was one of the early models.I only carry and shoot sigs now.combat trained with a .357,fun to shoot but more than 20 yards away and you can dance and sing safely in the field of fire(of most people).played with some barettas.nah,did not sit in hand right.kimbers are nice but boy are they pricey.nice to shhot though.My two cents say stick with sig.battle tested and proven.as to spring issues that others have mentioned,I have a 15 rd mag...I only need four rds in it by the bed,and when I carry it I always load the empty mag(never more than 10 rds)that i have for just that purpose,this is my extra mag.heaven help me if I ever have a need for that second mag.

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I haven't read the previous posts, so I don't know what has been discussed, and what hasn't. And I know you Yanks seem to be allergic to 9mm, but have you considered a Browning Hi-Power?

It is made up of composite and steel.

After speaking to a friend of mine who is really into guns, I decided against it.

The ammo that it was designed for(body armor piercing) is illegal to purchase and own by non-law enforcement.

Add the fact that each bullet is .50 and the fact that it is a beefed up .22 in the civilian ammo and it is out of the picture.

My problem with the glock is that it seems to not "fit" my hand very well.

I should have considered that when I bought it, but I thought I'd get used to it.

I also picked up the CZ-75 once and got the same impression. The lack of brand name recogbition made me go Glock.

Go figure. Maybe, I'll switch back.

__________________
Enough about me, how are you doing?

I have a S&W 9mm that I bought off a broke doper about 30 years ago. Great pistol. Paid the equivalent of $50. Also have a couple of .22 pistols, one that I used for squirrel hunting (High Standard with a bull barrel) until I needed reading glasses to see the damned rear sight!

If I buy another pistol it will be some version of the 1911 Colt in .45 cal. I used one in the military and never fired a run-of-the-mill pistol that was more accurate at 50 ft. It also makes a large hole in whatever it hits.

http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/colt45.htm

Precisely.
When my dad was in the army, he always carried a Browning Hi-Power.
His reasoning? It'll penetrate. If someone is hiding behind a car door, or a fence or something like that, he can shoot him through it. He also swears by the reliability of them - they did many tests and found them to be without jams after more rounds than any other pistols they tried.

Yes but for home defense? Do you want it to penetrate your walls and the neighbour's walls too?

__________________
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Not all of it. This one is legal:

SS196 - Sporting round (Hornady 40 gr. V-max, hollow point lead), (not AP)

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm

Where did he say he wanted it for home defence?