Do Atheists murder? - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

A264172 · #76 12-14-2007, 11:07 PM

When the voice in my head talks to me I just nod and ignore it.

kerry · #77 12-14-2007, 11:28 PM

Watching 'Breaking the Waves" right now. Lots of divine promises and divine voices involved. A modern day Abraham/Isaac tale.

A264172 · #78 12-14-2007, 11:35 PM

Never heard of it ... till now. IMBD synopsis seems to rate it a great film.

MS Fowler · #79 12-15-2007, 08:04 AM

The Bible is a progessive revelation. Abraham was very early, before there was even a Jewish nation, well before Moses and the Law.
I cannot answer "why" God seems to have been testing Abraham. It certainly was not because God needed to know something about Abraham.
Mankind has been fighting against God sice the very beginning. Why would anyone think that God is under some sort of obligation to serve mankind. He is the Creator; we are the creation--VAST difference. Paul discusses this in his letter to the Romans--Does the clay ask of the Potter, " Why have you made me like this?". The original Greek is very strong--that the question is completely out of order==Clay does not make demands on the Potter.

aklim · #80 12-15-2007, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I cannot answer "why" God seems to have been testing Abraham. It certainly was not because God needed to know something about Abraham.

Why would anyone think that God is under some sort of obligation to serve mankind.

He is the Creator; we are the creation--VAST difference.

Paul discusses this in his letter to the Romans--Does the clay ask of the Potter, " Why have you made me like this?". The original Greek is very strong--that the question is completely out of order==Clay does not make demands on the Potter.

If you don't know why Abe is being tested, how do you know why it is certainly not this, that or the other?

If he is under no obligation to serve us or help us, why should we bother with what he wants us to do? I don't care how you want me to dress at work because you are not signing my paycheck. The question still remains, what sort of shepard is he? One who genuinely cares about the flock or one who doesn't give a damn and picks up a sheep to screw when it amuses him.

According to biblical text, Adam and Eve were the creation. Not us. We are the offspring of the creation at best. Maybe even the forgotten offspring.

If we aren't more than laboratory rats, then it asks the question, what does the rat owe the experimenter? If you want to ask me for things like obedience and to follow your teachings, you need to explain to me why I should. Give me something for it. Otherwise, aren't we just following somebody like David Koresh or the Rev Sun?

MS Fowler · #81 12-15-2007, 12:32 PM

You might as appropriately ask the subjects in a kingdom, if the king supplies all their needs in an adequate manner.

WDBCB20 · #82 12-15-2007, 12:40 PM

Bring on The Rapture™!!! A win win solution: Those who ascend will be reunited with Granny, see Fido again they way he looked before getting hit by a bus, get to meet Bertrand Russell and Elvis before he left the building, well, perhaps not Berty –he’s in hell. Those who are left behind will finally get to have fact based rational conversations supported by evidence, tempered by doubt and unencumbered by the Absolute Truth© as revealed in The Bible Pat. Pend. *

*A little publicized Miracle® is how nothing of this Absolute Truth© got lost in the translations from proto-Tannaitic Hebrew, to Aramaic to Koine Greek to Latin to Olde to Middle to Modern English hand copied over centuries….is that a ם or a פ on that termite eaten scroll? Oh wait, no, it’s a hole in the papyrus.

kerry · #83 12-15-2007, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

You might as appropriately ask the subjects in a kingdom, if the king supplies all their needs in an adequate manner.

Analogy is right on the money. Traditional theism only works when people are thinking in terms of monarchy. Once democracy supercedes monarchy, traditional theism is in deep trouble. In other words, traditional views of God's power and the human requirement to worship god rest on the acceptance of widespread assumptions about the kinds of relationships that should exist between the powerful and the powerless. In a healthy monarchy, the king thinks he has a right to rule and the subjects believe they have a requirement to obey. I think this is one of the main reasons why traditional theism functioned so well in medieval Europe. As soon as democracies develop and the powerful only gain their right to rule because of the consent of the governed, the traditional omnipotent God who expects to be worshipped by powerless humans becomes obsolete.

aklim · #84 12-15-2007, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

You might as appropriately ask the subjects in a kingdom, if the king supplies all their needs in an adequate manner.

The king has soldiers that will kill me for disobedience. The king also gives me things that are graspable, provable, etc, etc. What does tangible things does this religion give me? Should the King prove not to be able to govern, bad things also could happen.