Is all of that racism or prejudice? Racism is a form of prejudice. Prejudice just encompasses all the different facets. Maybe we like to talk of racism only because that is socially unacceptable while other forms of prejudice are socially acceptable

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Ah, a new term. Previously I introduced "bigot" to see if I could troll.

Racism
Bigotry
Prejudice

Are they equally reprehensible? Are they always equally unjustified? Can any ever be justified?

Are farm products poison?

B

Agreed, but their willingness to accept massive casualties is something that Germany did not possess, both in actual bodies and in mindset. They got to the gates of Moscow...but USSR ends in Novosirbirsk.

No prejudice should be socially acceptable, but we do live in the real world. I think some stereotypes exist for a reason.

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Aren't racism and bigotry a subset of prejudice?

How is one form of prejudice really worse or better than another form? Is racism worse than sexism? Where does bigotry fit in? How about hatred for a certain race or religion? Where is the scale?

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I wonder if the top-down structure of the USSR could have been defeated as Saddam's Iraq -- exclusive targeting of command and control grid. That left his armed forces unable to act, since action required orders from the top, down. Just a thought.

From the perspective of occupation subsequent to conquest, you are absolutely right: Germany simply didn't have a population, much less army, large enough to occupy all of the USSR even if Germany had "won". But first you kill the elephant, then you swallow it.
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Concerning racism, etc, I love arguments concerning definitions and so I'll admit that I set that one up.

Looking just at prejudice, I think that most of the time it is a reasonable behavior. It simply means to prejudge. For example, if I am in a strange town and neighborhood my prejudice leads me to behaviors that avoid groups of young men in dark alleys late at night. I prejudge the situation as being unacceptably dangerous, in my experience. It may or may not be fair to the guys, but my prejudice is guided by survival, not fairness.

B

Agreed Bot, but for the most part the command and control grid had already been eliminated by Stalin in the purges. The resurgence of the "motherland defense" mentality after the invasion was something shared by most citizens of the USSR. Sure, many Ukrainians welcomed the Germans as liberators, but the einsatzgruppen changed that opinion very quickly. Die hard communists and those who hated the regime, as well as Kazakhs, Siberians, Ukrainians, Turkmen etc. all agreed on one thing: they would die for their motherland.

Your command and control elimination strategy makes sense, but is difficult without smartbombs, cruise missiles, and satellite imagery.

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Like Japan attacking Pearl Harbor, Hitler's terrible treatment of the Ukrainians was one of the great blunders of the Axis. Sometimes things are decided as much by who made fewer bad decisions as much as who made brilliant ones.

B

The Germans probably would have won in Russia if:

They captured the British army at Dunkirk.

They invaded North Africa and seized the suez canal right after there victory in France. This could have been done with 4-5 divisions since the British only had two at the time, one questonable. It would have been over in a matter of weeks.

Supported the movement in Iraq to overthrow British rule and establish a very, very pro Nazi government. German paratroopers and 2-3 divisions at most could have done this.

This would have set up a very favorable situation for Operation barbarossa:
1. Britian would have been out of the war, or its participation irrelevant. They would have lacked any meaningful army and would be cut off from there colonies, which as a result would have fallen very quickly to Japan.
2. 38 divisions stationed in France would have been availible for Barbarossa, as well as 12 in Norway. Since the Brits are out these forces can be used elsewhere. Also several divisions (about 7, I beleive the 3rd panzer to name one was there, very powerfull forces tied down) were messing around in Italy and the Balkins, again this would not have been needed.
3. Oil supplies would have been secure, as well as access to the Ukraine. Those 50 divisions could have formed a 4th group which could have thrust up towards the Ukraine and cut Russia's balls off in a matter of weeks. They would have lost oil, and wheat fields, as well as retreat routes for factories and there armies. Not to mention the only air bases they had able to hit the German oil refineries in Romania.

With all this conditions meet Operation Barbarossa could have been launched in April/May 1942 with 191 divisions, insted of 141.

Note* this extra time would have allowed the Panzer divisions to replace most of there outdated Panzer 1,2, and 3's with 4's.

All of the above was suggested to Hitler several times by officers in the OKH, but he refused to listen. Hitler had a strickly continental view of affairs, he really didn't grasp the whole picture. If he grasped the whole picture he probably could have gotten Japan to invade Russia as well, since he handled the British for them. This would have tied down all the divisions Russia used to beat the Germans back.

Its scary how good the German officer core was, I believe at the time they had no equal.

In all likelyhood with this scenario the Germans would have won in Russia in 1942.

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Since there are different races inhabiting this planet, there will always be racism. The question remains, how badly it turns into bigotry and is lived out.

Prejudice is an individual setting based on assumption, confusion and implemented educational values.
Prejudice is not nessecarily related to racism, yet racism is often (almost always) a result of prejudice.

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Am I mistaken in thinking that from the point of view of a biologist, there is no such thing as a race?
If it's true that there is no such thing as a race, then racists are like flat earthers.
On the other hand, biologists can dislike other people as much as any other group. So what do we call a biologist who dislikes people with a different skin color?
We talk of racism and sexism. Religionism seems as useful a category as the previous two.
Aren't all of us here automobilists?

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Ah, but maybe some of us look down on other types of cars.

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True, but predjudice can also be a result of education I know many formally minority tolerant people that now always have a watchful eye on the other races due to experiences in adult life.

You anti-pigment-ite, you!

If they're anti-pig, does that mean they might be Jewish or Muslim?

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I understand, that experience can be at times confirmative in what is widely assumed about other groups of the same society.

I once watch this show, 'Pride & Prejudice'. At first I thought, man this is some boring stuff, but then, after I became familiar with all the personalities and the games they played among each other, it was really mind boggling.
Almost similar to 'Dynasty' or 'Dallas', but different ....

I saw an other movie recently, "Valmont", I can recommend, it plays during the high times of French Aristocracy, it's quite entertaining.

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