Drill ANWAR? - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cscmc1 · #31 04-18-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

... but your argument about health care going down the toilet would hold more water if the citizens of those other countries had lower life expectancy than we do here in the US, which isn't the case. I'm specifically talking about Europe, Japan and Canada. But again, that's off-topic and if you wish to discuss that further I suggest you start another thread.

I agree that warrants another thread altogether... which is a good thing because I think that our shorter life expectancy is much more a result of our lifestyles than it is our health care. But I digress...

DieselAddict · #32 04-18-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

And you are sure that the Burb the guy is driving today is his primary vehicle? I can't tell that.

Good point, but a Burb IMO is too gas-guzzling to EVER drive to the office or grocery store, even as a secondary vehicle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Then maybe you should go out and buy those gas guzzlers so others don't use them.

If the junkyards paid me enough to cover my costs and then some, I'd do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

OK. Fair enough. Tell me about my Excursion that gets 18 mpg. This week I have been driving it alone to work about 75 miles away. Suggest something better for me that will do all it does. It has to carry 4 dogs, tow an 8000# RV and 2 ATVs, do delivery runs here and there for florists and newspapers and take me to work when the wife is at a conference in a different part of the state. Oh, it has to take me to the store for a Coke and Big Mac run every now and then too. Now, here is the important thing, it cannot cost more than what my Ex would cost in maintenance, insurance and space.

You don't have to do any of those things in your Excursion. That's your choice and the kind of wasteful fuel expenditure that I'm talking about.

aklim · #33 04-18-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Of course there's always a downside to everything. I'm certainly not one of those promoting any magic bullets.

Ah, but Sir, did you mention that till I said that NILIF?

aklim · #34 04-18-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Good point, but a Burb IMO is too gas-guzzling to EVER drive to the office or grocery store, even as a secondary vehicle.

If the junkyards paid me enough to cover my costs and then some, I'd do it.

You don't have to do any of those things in your Excursion. That's your choice and the kind of wasteful fuel expenditure that I'm talking about.

So what do you suggest they do until the primary vehicle gets back? I suppose I shouldn't go to work because the car we drive together is being taken to another part of the state? I wish I could sit at home but the circumstances dictate otherwise.

Oh, I thought you were going to sacrifice yourself for the common good like you are keeping the E300 otherwise somebody else will make it a primary vehicle.

You going to haul my dogs to the dog park when I want to? You going to haul my RV when I want to go on vacation? You going to haul my ATVs when I want to ride them? Haul my boat to the lakes? Would you have driven me from Madison to Milwaukee (75 miles one way) for work? You sign a contract that pledges that you will do for me all my Excursion can do and I'll even sell it. Hell, if you did that, I could give up the florist and newspaper runs. Or was it your intention that to be less wasteful, I deprive myself of all my leisure activities?

Put it another way, if I didn't have to drive that brute, I wouldn't. However, until I can find a vehicle that will do all that it does and costs less, I don't have much of a choice. Yes, it is a all around thing therefore it isn't good at any one thing. To replace the Ex, I'd have to have a truck to haul, a station wagon to take the dogs and a car to do short errands and find someway to pay for the 3 vehicles and their maintenance and insurance. Then I'd have to build a bigger garage since I can't leave it sit on the lawn (another payment). So yes, the Ex is the cheapest I could find that would do all that. So sometimes, I have to put up with the fact that it isn't good with the Big Mac Runs.

Honus · #35 04-18-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

...What are you keeping it for? For a more dire time than now?

Yes. I would rather use up everyone else's reserves.

DieselAddict · #36 04-18-2008, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Or was it your intention that to be less wasteful, I deprive myself of all my leisure activities?

Yes, that was my intention. It is your choice to haul your ATV's or what not and I don't care. It's the whining about self-inflicted pain at the pump and how we should do all these things (like drilling in ANWR or suspending the fuel tax) to further fuel our wasteful lifestyles that is getting old.

aklim · #37 04-18-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Yes, that was my intention. It is your choice to haul your ATV's or what not and I don't care.

It's the whining about self-inflicted pain at the pump and how we should do all these things (like drilling in ANWR or suspending the fuel tax) to further fuel our wasteful lifestyles that is getting old.

You first. You make your life just work and sleep and strip yourself of all the things that give you pleasure and I'll do the same later. IOW, kids, vacations, clothes, etc, etc. Just the bare minimums.

Now if I come see you, are you sure I cannot find anything I would classify as wasteful? Care to lead by example?

I don't think I am against the fuel tax per se. I am against what the taxes are used for. Now if I were taxed and that money goes to fixing the road or building new roads, I have no complains. If it goes for ANYTHING else but what it was for, I have a problem with it. As to ANWR, why should we keep holding onto it? It is something we can sell. We are running out of things to sell. Manufactured goods are going elsewhere to be produced. If we can sell oil, it is something we can use.

DieselAddict · #38 04-18-2008, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

You first. You make your life just work and sleep and strip yourself of all the things that give you pleasure and I'll do the same later. IOW, kids, vacations, clothes, etc, etc. Just the bare minimums.

Now if I come see you, are you sure I cannot find anything I would classify as wasteful? Care to lead by example?

Sure I don't live in a cave and live on worms, but I try my best to conserve as I go along. I drive as little as possible, keep the lights I'm not using off, keep heater and AC use down to a minimum, do laundry maybe once every 6 weeks, shower only when filthy (not every day), recycle as much as possible, buy 2nd-hand whenever practical, and so on. What about you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

As to ANWR, why should we keep holding onto it? It is something we can sell. We are running out of things to sell. Manufactured goods are going elsewhere to be produced. If we can sell oil, it is something we can use.

Like someone else said, why not keep it as a reserve instead of squandering it now? We probably couldn't export any of it anyway as it would barely make a dent in our domestic supply. And let's not overlook the obvious: potential environmental damage in ANWR. I know, some people couldn't care less and that's sad.

aklim · #39 04-18-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselAddict

Sure I don't live in a cave and live on worms, but I try my best to conserve as I go along. I drive as little as possible, keep the lights I'm not using off, keep heater and AC use down to a minimum, do laundry maybe once every 6 weeks, shower only when filthy (not every day), recycle as much as possible, buy 2nd-hand whenever practical, and so on. What about you?

Like someone else said, why not keep it as a reserve instead of squandering it now? We probably couldn't export any of it anyway as it would barely make a dent in our domestic supply.

And let's not overlook the obvious: potential environmental damage in ANWR. I know, some people couldn't care less and that's sad.

I drive when I have to. That means going to work, vacations and playtime, etc, etc. I don't take drives just to burn gas because no matter how cheap it is, it still costs money. I have a programmable thermostat that sets the temp at comfort levels and I do laundry when I have a load. I will shower ever day since I don't want to go to bed when I am not clean. I recycle if it is convenient. I will buy the cheapest product whether it is new or 2nd hand depending on what it is and the lifespan. Bottom line, I don't want to piss away money but I am NOT going to make my life work and sleep. I work so I can enjoy things I enjoy in life.

Then what difference does it make to keep it if it is that insignificant? Money's still money.

Potential, yes. There is a potential that the car I am driving will crash. Still that will not deter me from driving if the risks are minimal.

LUVMBDiesels · #40 04-18-2008, 06:04 PM

Here is what we need. A government agency (maybe the EPA) who will determine what vehicle each and every person will be able to buy. Maybe they can use something like fuel credits. Yow know if you are a farmer, you can have 1 pickup truck (6 cyl) and maybe a tractor (diesel only) A suburban homeowner can have 1 electric vehicle per family and so on.

Once we do that we can ban all other vehicles fro the road and make the people crush them in order to get maybe food credits...

The only ones who will be able to get SUV's will be Gweneth Paltrow, ROsie O'Donnell, and Babrara Streisand as they need them for security purposes...

Seriously we need to figure something out In NJ the people are having trouble making ends meet a lot of them use oil for heat and with it cruising at almost 4.00/gallon they will no longer be able to heat their homes.

Senator Frank Lautenberg's solution? Ban off shore drilling off the NJ coast!

We need a REAL energy policy which means exploration and exploitation of the oil we have domestically including the reserves they found in Wyoming (just had a ban on drilling go into affect there) , NJ, and Florida...

I just paid $1300.00 for 300 gallons of fuel oil for my home in New Paltz! This is crazy!

pawoSD · #41 04-18-2008, 06:09 PM

Drilling in ANWAR would do nothing to offset prices. I am fully opposed to it as all it would do is destroy one of the last pristine areas on the planet. They say even if they went ahead with drilling it would be nearly 8-10 years before any of that oil even reached market. It would not affect prices at all. Also, there's not THAT much oil there. It may sound like a lot....but I read somewhere that based on current US consumption, we'd suck it dry in less than a year if we soley used it as our fuel source. (which is impossible)

We really do need $6-7 fuel, so the majority of guzzler vehicles are removed from the roads.

DieselAddict · #42 04-18-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Bottom line, I don't want to piss away money but I am NOT going to make my life work and sleep. I work so I can enjoy things I enjoy in life.

Trust me, so do I. But with a little extra effort anyone can cut out at least some waste without degrading his or her life quality. Even small savings add up in the long run.

aklim · #43 04-18-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

They say even if they went ahead with drilling it would be nearly 8-10 years before any of that oil even reached market. It would not affect prices at all.

Also, there's not THAT much oil there. It may sound like a lot....but I read somewhere that based on current US consumption, we'd suck it dry in less than a year if we soley used it as our fuel source. (which is impossible)

We really do need $6-7 fuel, so the majority of guzzler vehicles are removed from the roads.

And if we drilled 10 years ago, that would be about when? Now?

Same experts that tell us a well is dry because they predicted it would cost too much to extract oil and then years later, lo and behold, oil comes forth again. We have predicted the end of oil since before the first oil well was dug. All it really means is that at TODAY's prices with TODAY's technology it is not economical to pump it out. Nothing about TOMORROW is ever said since we cannot predict

pawoSD · #44 04-18-2008, 06:38 PM

You can't put a price on destroying wildlife and habitat though, I think humans have damaged/are damaging enough of that as it is.

We only have one planet, if we mess it up, we're all in trouble.

aklim · #45 04-18-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

You can't put a price on destroying wildlife and habitat though, I think humans have damaged/are damaging enough of that as it is.

We only have one planet, if we mess it up, we're all in trouble.

I doubt it will destroy everything there. Maybe a little section. Think about this. IF the oil spills, what is it worth to whomever drilling it? Fines? Cleanups? Think it will be worth anything? Probably not. Every drop they pump off is money earned. Every drop they spill is money lost.

Maybe, maybe not. Can't say for sure if that holds true in the future.