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LaRondo · #61 05-01-2008, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Communism was bound to burn itself out. And it did in what, 100 years?

That's short. The main charge at Nuremburg was unwarranted aggression. It was a civil war. It was none of our business. We blew nearly $1 trillion inflation adjusted on it.

Just whack.

Get over it.

Correctlemundo, as they say. Not even mentioning the self-praising fanfare of having "won the war", to the fact that the invasion from overseas was explicitly timed to the event of the above named agressor being nearly, but soon entirely exhausted.

MS Fowler · #62 05-01-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Communism was bound to burn itself out. And it did in what, 100 years?

Get over it.

I WISH that were true!
Communism has simply relocated; it is not dead. After backrupting the Soviet Union, it now seeks to do the same to the USA. Listening to the way the libs* want to take from the oil companies reminds me of an old quote,
" From each according to his ability to each according according to his needs"

It sounds so seductive, so alluring, in the abstract, but in the real world, it simply doesn't work. People who have the ability to be more productive than average, will not extend themselves if they get no benefit.

The question is, Will the US learn the lesson, or will we continue to listen to pandering politicians who promise us the Garden of Eden while "someone else" pays for it? You heard it here first--There is no free lunch!

* for the purposes of this post, "libs" is defined as any politician of any party who panders to any special interest group by promising benefits paid for by others not of the special interest group."

Jim B. · #63 05-01-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I WISH that were true!
Communism has simply relocated; it is not dead. After backrupting the Soviet Union, it now seeks to do the same to the USA. Listening to the way the libs* want to take from the oil companies reminds me of an old quote,
"From each according to his ability to each according according to his needs"

"

^^^^ I ALWAYS say that every time I am siphoning the gasoline out of Cadillacs!!!!! hahahahahaha!!! < snorts >

MS Fowler · #64 05-01-2008, 08:45 AM

Jim,
No wonder you don't care about the cost of gas, or even the taxes!

Txjake · #65 05-01-2008, 09:08 AM

Here, I fixed it for you:

"However, I bear in mind that our gub-mint was killing communist soldiers knee deep in mud at the time and plenty of us, foolishly, believed it was insane and noted that govt. powers that be had about zero interest in that assessment."

Vietnam happened, we were right to go there, and yet the leftists in this country saw to it that most folks think those 50 thousand plus US soldiers died in vain.....if there was any US defeat or communist victory, it should be laid at the feet of the socialist and communist sympathisers in the US

cmac2012 · #66 05-01-2008, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Ever notice whose great life-lesson is Vietnam?

Why don't you get over it?

Because it is a divide that still grips our nation in a big way. Sin and crime, unadmitted and unattoned for, has a cancerous effect on the spirit, IMO.

Further, the mistaken lessons of it play big-time in opinions about how to proceed in the current quagmire.

John McCain, speaking in Israel, said that people have a right to defend themselves, speaking of course of Israelis who were/are beset by home-made rockets. Apparently he did not or does not retroactively extend this right to the people of Vietnam whom he bombed mercilessly and w/o provocation.

His understanding of the world is badly flawed as a result. He fails to grasp important lessons regarding human nature, believing his pride and presumed righteousness trump such things.

cmac2012 · #67 05-01-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palangi

Obama knew exactly who Ayers and Dohrn were.

He knew full well that they were communist terrorists, albeit incompetent ones. The fact is they are still unrepentent and active Marxists today. Any presidential candidate playing tiddly-winks with the likes of them should not be allowed to be dog-catcher, much less senator or president.

If I'm not mistaken, Dohrn's fingerprints were found in a bomb factory right there in Berkeley.

By the way, do you have any idea how many Americans the weathermen estimated would have to be killed because they couldn't be "re-educated"? Think in terms of 8 digits.

Nice folks, Obama's buddies. Wonder why he won't talk about it?

Proof? That he knew about them up front?

I never heard anything of the sort about the Weathermen (the kill 8 digits stuff), a bunch of self-righteous punks who in no way represent anything other than a small, small fraction of one percent of the anti-war movement in those days.

How many Vietnamese did we kill? Estimates are from 1.5 to 3 million. How many might have been killed had Goldwater had his way, the 'toe our line or eat big bombs, ya buncha gooks' path? An approach that chicken hawk Dubbers approved of BTW, and would have cheered on . . . . from frat row.

Too many, I mean too many Americans have this idea that our will, our military might is the right hand of God incarnate.

It is not.

Botnst · #68 05-01-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Because it is a divide that still grips our nation in a big way. Sin and crime, unadmitted and unattoned for, has a cancerous effect on the spirit, IMO.....

I rarely think about Vietnam. It was a part of my life in that I was in the military during that time but it sure isn't a life-lesson like having a kid, getting married, or having a parent die. I know some guys who were on the ground Vietnam ... mostly in the USMC ... who were there, did that, served several tours, moved on. They don't wear old fatigues and go Wall-weeping. They go fishing. They think those other guys are riding a carousel of their own creation much as a reformed sinner gets-up to weep, "I have sinned!" After a half-dozen self-indulgent chest beating episodes it's time to move along.

Should we ignore historically important events? heck no.

You put it in context and use it as an occasionally useful guide. But you don't let it lead you through life by the nose.

B

cmac2012 · #69 05-01-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

Here, I fixed it for you:

"However, I bear in mind that our gub-mint was killing communist soldiers knee deep in mud at the time and plenty of us, foolishly, believed it was insane and noted that govt. powers that be had about zero interest in that assessment."

Vietnam happened, we were right to go there, and yet the leftists in this country saw to it that most folks think those 50 thousand plus US soldiers died in vain.....if there was any US defeat or communist victory, it should be laid at the feet of the socialist and communist sympathisers in the US

Try fixing your brain. Get a clue people! Ho Chi Minh and boys thought communism looked like democracy cuz the experience they'd had with "free markets" looked a lot like colonial exploitation, with the French lining up warships and shelling villages to soften up resistance. Ho and boys helped us mop up the Japanese in '45 and wanted to be out ally and ward much more than they wanted same with the Russians. The French wouldn't hear of it and the rest is a tawdry history of folly.

They were never going to give up, Diem and Thu (sp) were crooks with a fraction of the popular support of Ho.

And further, the Gulf of Tonkin incident was A GDed FRAUD!!! Deputy CIA director at the time, Roy Cline, IIRC, can be seen on video saying that they knew in advance and coordinated with a night time attack by two unmarked SV gun boats on the same port that 36 hours the Maddox steamed by and zigged zagged back and forth in front of 5 miles away (i.e., in full view) for 5 hours.

Exactly what the hell do you think we would have done under such circumstances? They sent out two small gun boats to repell the INVADER.

Even Adm. James Stockdale, a pilot in the air during the supposed 2nd G. of T. incident, says it didn't happen, it was just radar phantoms in thick fog.

We went round the bend in a big way. The sooner ya'all die-hard hawks can see and admit it, the sooner you can be helped.

Jeeeeeezzzzz louise . . . .

cmac2012 · #70 05-01-2008, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I rarely think about Vietnam. It was a part of my life in that I was in the military during that time but it sure isn't a life-lesson like having a kid, getting married, or having a parent die. I know some guys who were on the ground Vietnam ... mostly in the USMC ... who were there, did that, served several tours, moved on. They don't wear old fatigues and go Wall-weeping. They go fishing. They think those other guys are riding a carousel of their own creation much as a reformed sinner gets-up to weep, "I have sinned!" After a half-dozen self-indulgent chest beating episodes it's time to move along.

Should we ignore historically important events? heck no.

You put it in context and use it as an occasionally useful guide. But you don't let it lead you through life by the nose.

I'd be happy, believe me, to never reference it again. However, the spector of fat-faced, self-righteous John O'Neill essentially hi-jacking a presidential election based on his barely adult ambitious (I got to go in and meet Pres. Nixon!!!) misconception of his importance and a large part of the country buying into the crap, along with my being besmirched along with all the other 'commie sympathizers' cuz I had the good sense not to get shot up while committing a crime, well I'm telling you, at some point you have to stand up and say not only no, but HELL NO and straighten the record out.

The Russians would have had about as much luck as we did in controlling that country in a big way. Shortly after we left, the NV army repelled a Chinese takeover attempt and put Pol Pot out of business. So much for the creeping spread of communism . . . .

Botnst · #71 05-01-2008, 03:36 PM

He was cheap, a Deim Ho.

cmac2012 · #72 05-01-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

I WISH that were true!
Communism has simply relocated; it is not dead. After backrupting the Soviet Union, it now seeks to do the same to the USA. Listening to the way the libs* want to take from the oil companies reminds me of an old quote,
" From each according to his ability to each according according to his needs"

It sounds so seductive, so alluring, in the abstract, but in the real world, it simply doesn't work. People who have the ability to be more productive than average, will not extend themselves if they get no benefit.

The question is, Will the US learn the lesson, or will we continue to listen to pandering politicians who promise us the Garden of Eden while "someone else" pays for it? You heard it here first--There is no free lunch!

* for the purposes of this post, "libs" is defined as any politician of any party who panders to any special interest group by promising benefits paid for by others not of the special interest group."

It's a tough one. Full on, unrestrained capitalism is likely to lead to the sort of feudal landlord societies of present day El Salvador or medieval Europe, where the upper 1% have 95% of the wealth. Not a lot of growth in such a society. I'd much rather have a strong middle class with good educations so that they can provide the sort of goods and services that make live worth living.