Chimney Expert Needed - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

t walgamuth · #16 10-27-2008, 07:18 PM

Concrete masonry unit.

If you have water inside the clay tile, its probably coming in through poor mortar joints between the units.

Fortunately you have room to add brick it looks like when you can afford it.

bill murrow · #17 10-27-2008, 07:23 PM

Yepper...it's coming in through the flue, thats for sure.

With the way the economy is affecting my business, it'll be quite a while before I can afford to brick it up. I need to figure something that will be a little economical then find somebody to do it.

Jed89300E · #18 10-27-2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill murrow

Does it ever.

Wasn't bad when first put up but now that its been up a couple years the water streams in. There's barely what I would call a shower going on now and it's dripping.

I still don't see how it gets through the flue. That terra cotta looking stuff has a baked on finish.

The cap I am talking about is not the spark arrestor you described above. The cap prevents eactly what you are describing. It is basically mortar (sand mix i.e. Sand and portland cement) and is troweled on the top of the chase around the flue. It is tapered on all sides and seals the top of the chimney. That mesh "cap" is not the "cap", it's the spark arrestor. I cannot see a cap on this chimney, though, they're hard to see from the ground. It should've been part of the installation. Even a medium sized crack in a cap will cause water infiltration.

Secondly, the block Chimney should not itself cause water to "pour in" the basement. Remember that a lot of foundations are block and do not leak unless cracked...even if someone forgot to put tar on the perimiter. It may show moisture through it, but NOT pouring in as soon as it starts raining. If it makes you feel better, stucco the chimney, but I am guessing it is either missing the cap, the cap has cracks in it, or it was not properly tied in to the other cap. The seam at the house between the brick and block should also be sealed with a semi-flexible sealant. It's grey, you can get it at HD. It's Hevy-duty stuff. DO NOT buy regular caulk or silicone. This stuff is over in the "building materials" section by the concrete colors. The tube is yellow with red writing. Good luck!

bill murrow · #19 10-27-2008, 07:39 PM

I looked at it with binoculars today and didn't see any type of mortar slope at all around the top. Looked flat to me. Couldn't see the joint inbetween the brick and block chimney of course but will have someone check that too.

Betcha it is the mortar cap thats missing causing the problem. Sounds very logical.

I just can't see as much water as I'm getting coming through both the block and the flue.

Thanks. We'll have someone do the job following your suggestions and I'll let you all know the result. Many many thanks. This has been driving me nuts.

TMAllison · #20 10-27-2008, 09:16 PM

I'm far from an expert on masonry but can hold my own concerning tile and veneers; in addition to a "cap" or appropriate flashings, won't something like the spray on crystaline WP stuff (can't remember product name) on the outside of the CMU's help prevent moisture from getting in there?

They look pretty damp from the photos.

t walgamuth · #21 10-27-2008, 10:06 PM

Yes, sprayed or rolled.

Its likely not just one thing. Some combination will probably be needed. Concrete block is just not a very good application for this tall exposed chimney.

TMAllison · #22 10-27-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

Its likely not just one thing. Some combination will probably be needed. Concrete block is just not a very good application for this tall exposed chimney.

That's very true Tom. As a PM/Estimator I've (fortunately) not seen a failure that was not caused by multiple bad details or conditions.

The crystaline material wont stop water penetrating but ought to slow it down considerably. A masonry or metal cap over both chimneys would help as would a desner finish materail over the CMU's. I believe that WP material will also allow for a veneer application at a later date w/o becomming a bond breaker.

Might not look real good in the mean time though.

A264172 · #23 10-27-2008, 10:57 PM

Get some brave soul up there on a real tall ladder with 3 or 4... or 10 tubes of silicon caulk to see what can be filled until you can get a mason on the job. I also wonder if paint would be a good temporary idea.

t walgamuth · #24 10-28-2008, 06:21 AM

Paint would help. but it always peels so if mine and i wanted to paint i would try to match the color of the block.

kknudson · #25 10-28-2008, 06:45 AM

OK Let's see if this works.

I had to redo around my chimney recently, took lots of pics.

This is after I opened it up, the roofers about 10 years ago did not correctly do the flashing. Interesting, I figure it would have taken them maybe a half hour to fix it, instead they tried using probably 20 bucks worth of caulk which eventually failed. At least one Contractor sized tube of the expensive speciality stuff, the 6+ buck sized us regulars buy.
Just FYI, I ringed the entire chimney with Ice Guard sheeting, resetting the flashing properly as I replaced the roof, each nail got a dab of tar, as did the front bottom of each shingle as I replaced them (to remake that line they put on them to keep the wind from lifting the front).
But I overdo things.

BUT this shows the concrete sloped cap on top of the main slab. I do tar around each of the flues, and have repaired the crack in the cap.

bill murrow · #26 10-28-2008, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A264172

Get some brave soul up there on a real tall ladder with 3 or 4... or 10 tubes of silicon caulk to see what can be filled until you can get a mason on the job. I also wonder if paint would be a good temporary idea.

I have a guy coming today but the rain will have to stop before he can do anything.

Jed89300E · #27 10-28-2008, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill murrow

I have a guy coming today but the rain will have to stop before he can do anything.

Hey Bill, If there doesn't seem to be anything up there that looks suspicious, check around the bottom of the chimney. Could be getting water in from the ground or even just the cleanout I think I see in the picture there. The thing is, there has to be some type of gaping hole or something for water to be "pouring" in. This is not caused by soaking in block or anything. Yesterday you said it was sprinkling and it was dripping. That is the result of direct water infiltration, not some secondary seepage or whatever. I also agree with finishing the chimney somehow. I suggest stucco as the best less expensive way. Brick would be better, but obviously more expensive. Be careful about using too much silicone as a temporary fix, as this will need to be removed for any permenent fix. I am still betting on the cap.

bill murrow · #28 10-28-2008, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jed89300E

Hey Bill, If there doesn't seem to be anything up there that looks suspicious, check around the bottom of the chimney. Could be getting water in from the ground or even just the cleanout I think I see in the picture there. The thing is, there has to be some type of gaping hole or something for water to be "pouring" in. This is not caused by soaking in block or anything. Yesterday you said it was sprinkling and it was dripping. That is the result of direct water infiltration, not some secondary seepage or whatever. I also agree with finishing the chimney somehow. I suggest stucco as the best less expensive way. Brick would be better, but obviously more expensive. Be careful about using too much silicone as a temporary fix, as this will need to be removed for any permenent fix. I am still betting on the cap.

I opened the clean out door and its running down from the top.

Agreed its way too much water to be just seeping in through the block. When it just sprinkles it leaks into the basement!

My guy has canceled for today...too much wind/rain....

raslaje · #29 10-28-2008, 03:54 PM

The cap area of the chimney presents such a small area to collect rainfall that it seems to me (unqualified that I am in this area to offer an opinion, but it hasn't stopped me before) unlikely to be the source of a large quantity of water. The roof, however, would intercept a lot of water and if your gutters were clogged the water might dam at the flashing of the brick chimney and find an entry point. Are your downspouts showing restricted water flow when it rains? Any water coming in the attic?

bill murrow · #30 10-28-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raslaje

The cap area of the chimney presents such a small area to collect rainfall that it seems to me (unqualified that I am in this area to offer an opinion, but it hasn't stopped me before) unlikely to be the source of a large quantity of water. The roof, however, would intercept a lot of water and if your gutters were clogged the water might dam at the flashing of the brick chimney and find an entry point. Are your downspouts showing restricted water flow when it rains? Any water coming in the attic?

You would be surprised how much water a little crack can let in.

If you look at the pictures I posted you'll see the chimney in question is the block chimney which is out away from the house. If it were a flashing problem the brick chimney would be leaking. Add to that the pitch of the roof is opposite the chimneys and its a slate roof. With a steep pitch and a slate roof, no way the roof leaks.

Gutters are good, not a drop in the attic or anywhere else other than running out of the flue pipe in the basement.