Sooo, the terrorists win?? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

raymr · #16 12-28-2009, 06:54 PM

The whole mideast is very much in our faces all the time now. Back in the good old days they got an occasional article in the middle of the newspaper. Ideally thats where they should be. If things keep escalating like this, with the constant cloud of terrorism, and the reactive anti-terrorism measures called for with each event, who knows what the last straw will be.

Imagine, you used to be able to go to a baseball game without a stranger poking through your bags and the possibility of being patted down like some criminal. The big danger is that the next generation of Americans won't remember, or won't care.

Billybob · #17 12-28-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

What are the odds a person on that list has a name the same or similar to yours?
From "The Boston Globe"-
"The federal government has inflated the ``No Fly List" to 200,000 names. But the list has nabbed more members of Congress than it has terrorists. US Senator Edward M. Kennedy and US Representative John Lewis have been inconvenienced by it, and anyone named David Nelson is likely to face a major interrogation each time he flies. Federal officials make it very difficult to correct the list, thus tormenting citizens who are guilty of nothing more than having a name resembling a name suspected sometime by some government official."

The 'terrorist' batting average
By James Bovard | July 21, 2006

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/07/21/the_terrorist_batting_average/

Wow a three and a half year old New York Times owned Boston Globe op-ed referencing the in convincing Killer Ted using outdated inaccurate facts. Couldn’t find anything at Moveon or the DailyKos?

And now you don’t believe the Dear Leader’s people when they tell you the “No Fly List” contains 4,000 names?

”A law enforcement official said it was not unusual that a one-time comment from a relative would not place a person on the far smaller no-fly list, which has only 4,000 names, or the so-called selectee list of 14,000 names of people who are subjected to more thorough searches at checkpoints.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/us/29terror.html?pagewanted=1

MTI · #18 12-28-2009, 07:10 PM

Perhaps terrorists own an interest in Marquis Jet and Flex Jet.

Chas H · #19 12-28-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The 'terrorist' batting average
By James Bovard | July 21, 2006

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/07/21/the_terrorist_batting_average/

Wow a three and a half year old New York Times owned Boston Globe op-ed referencing the in convincing Killer Ted using outdated inaccurate facts. Couldn’t find anything at Moveon or the DailyKos?

And now you don’t believe the Dear Leader’s people when they tell you the “No Fly List” contains 4,000 names?

”A law enforcement official said it was not unusual that a one-time comment from a relative would not place a person on the far smaller no-fly list, which has only 4,000 names, or the so-called selectee list of 14,000 names of people who are subjected to more thorough searches at checkpoints.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/29/us/29terror.html?pagewanted=1

We're discussing the list with 500,000 names. 3 years ago there were 200,000 names on it. That's a damn big door you're standing behind.

Billybob · #20 12-28-2009, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

We're discussing the list with 500,000 names. 3 years ago there were 200,000 names on it. That's a damn big door you're standing behind.

From your post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

What are the odds a person on that list has a name the same or similar to yours?
From "The Boston Globe"-
"The federal government has inflated the ``No Fly List" to 200,000 names. But the list has nabbed more members of Congress than it has terrorists. US Senator Edward M. Kennedy and US Representative John Lewis have been inconvenienced by it, and anyone named David Nelson is likely to face a major interrogation each time he flies. Federal officials make it very difficult to correct the list, thus tormenting citizens who are guilty of nothing more than having a name resembling a name suspected sometime by some government official."

Maybe you shouldn't have conflated the TIDE list (550,000 names) of today that was the subject of discussion; with the no fly list at the time of the article(June 2006) you quote, then 200,000 names and today 4,000 names!

Hatterasguy · #21 12-28-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymr

The whole mideast is very much in our faces all the time now. Back in the good old days they got an occasional article in the middle of the newspaper. Ideally thats where they should be. If things keep escalating like this, with the constant cloud of terrorism, and the reactive anti-terrorism measures called for with each event, who knows what the last straw will be.

Imagine, you used to be able to go to a baseball game without a stranger poking through your bags and the possibility of being patted down like some criminal. The big danger is that the next generation of Americans won't remember, or won't care.

Yep its absurd. The rest of the world has lived with it for years, they just get used to it.

You can't live in a box, and I'd rather be dead than live in a police state.

Chas H · #22 12-28-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

From your post:

Maybe you shouldn't have conflated the TIDE list (550,000 names) of today that was the subject of discussion; with the no fly list at the time of the article(June 2006) you quote, then 200,000 names and today 4,000 names!

I didn't conflate anything. I was responding to a post that mentioned 500,000 names. The mention of Ted Kennedy was more than you could handle. Which, of course, is one reason I quoted that particular article. But all these lists and protocols were put in place during the reign of the former president.

Fitz · #23 12-28-2009, 08:42 PM

You can have diversity and multiculturalism or you can have national security.

MTI · #24 12-28-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz

You can have diversity and multiculturalism or you can have national security.

If the two concepts are mutually exclusive as you suggest . . . Internment camps, here we come!

pj67coll · #25 12-28-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

What are the odds a person on that list has a name the same or similar to yours?
From "The Boston Globe"-
"The federal government has inflated the ``No Fly List" to 200,000 names. But the list has nabbed more members of Congress than it has terrorists. US Senator Edward M. Kennedy and US Representative John Lewis have been inconvenienced by it, and anyone named David Nelson is likely to face a major interrogation each time he flies. Federal officials make it very difficult to correct the list, thus tormenting citizens who are guilty of nothing more than having a name resembling a name suspected sometime by some government official."

If the list is meaningful I'd say pretty damm close to zero. Of course that would require discrimination and no doubt the government would rather choke on it's own multiculturalist crud than have a meaningful list.

Let me see now. If I were the official in charge I'd make damm sure that names like, oh hell I don't know, maybe, Suzie Michaels, or Johhy Dugood etc were ignored, while names like Abdullah Rahim, or Mohammed whatever the hell you like were taken seriously. And I'd venture to say the inconvenience to the vast majority of the public would be massively reduced while the actual usefulness of such a list as a security measure would be diametrically enhanced.

But we all know that won't happen now, don't we.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #26 12-28-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Let's see how well that would work in practice.

Can you imagine the logistics of trying to verify the identity of 500K people who don't want to be identified? I would be surprised if they could actually manage 4000 identities.

In war you do what you need to do. Of course if your leaders figure you're not really in a war you just get buggerd at every opportunity. If the dept of hl sec is to be anything but the farce it currently is then the current admin needs to pull their heads out of their asses and make it so.

- Peter.

Billybob · #27 12-28-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

If the list is meaningful I'd say pretty damm close to zero. Of course that would require discrimination and no doubt the government would rather choke on it's own multiculturalist crud than have a meaningful list.

Let me see now. If I were the official in charge I'd make damm sure that names like, oh hell I don't know, maybe, Suzie Michaels, or Johhy Dugood etc were ignored, while names like Abdullah Rahim, or Mohammed whatever the hell you like were taken seriously. And I'd venture to say the inconvenience to the vast majority of the public would be massively reduced while the actual usefulness of such a list as a security measure would be diametrically enhanced.

But we all know that won't happen now, don't we.

- Peter.

Don't be a hater!

Jim B. · #28 12-28-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

The random belligerant, terrorist, whatever, is going to be hard to stop.

No easy answer.

Sure there is.

Single out and make *every* Arab-looking male would-be passenger from 8 to 80, stop and strip naked at a gate, especially reserved for them, (most especially the swarthy and heavily sweating ones,) to be roughly searched by the security types.

Better yet, deny them the right to board, no matter what.

Problem solved.

Done.

A lot of those constipated, politically correct lawyers may not like it too much but it would nonetheless solve the problem.

Jim B. · #29 12-28-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Let me see now. If I were the official in charge I'd make damm sure that names like, oh hell I don't know, maybe, Suzie Michaels, or Johhy Dugood etc were ignored, while names like Abdullah Rahim, or Mohammed whatever the hell you like were taken seriously.
- Peter.

No free pass for Mohammed Al-Shopliftah !!!!!

#30 12-29-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

In war you do what you need to do. Of course if your leaders figure you're not really in a war you just get buggerd at every opportunity. If the dept of hl sec is to be anything but the farce it currently is then the current admin needs to pull their heads out of their asses and make it so.

- Peter.

War? What you meant to say was that america finally joined the reallity that the rest of the world has been living with for decades. Aside from certain people who have their panties on a bunch over the current administation, everyone understands that law enforcement will address this individual and there will be some discussions with the leadership of certain nations.