No. What I meant to say was war.

This is not what the rest of the world dealt with for decades which was geographically localized politically motivated acts of terrorism that could be negated by the work of intelligence agencies and Israel. And as the individual's/groups were murdered, taken out, died or the political reality of the incitements changed the problem was contained.

This is nothing like that. It's is a religiously motivated return of the crusades. It will not end in our lifetimes and unless the current administration, and any succeeding ones for that matter of whatever party, get a clue, pull their heads out of their asses and treat the situation accordingly we will continue to be buggered at every opportunity.

- Peter.

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If you have any suggestions how to treat the situation accordingly, please pass them on to the g'ment and us.

Real simple. You don't waste your time with white citizens of the US, or anywhere for that matter. Unless of course they have changed their names to something arabic and "got religion". They are simply not the enemy. You get rid of all the bs at airports harassing grandmothers from Iowa and such. You target anybody with an islamic name from anywhere, particularly outside the US and you simply deny entry to any airline that does not provide a complete passenger list to the US authorities prior to the planes departure.

Then you properly staff the DHS so that their "list" can be meaningfully checked. That doesn't mean a few beaurocrats it means drafting in as many personnel from the various branches of the military as necessary. As you do in a war. The end result is that NO airliner takes off for the US, or within the US, for that matter without the authorities having a complete list of the people on board and having cross checked that list as many times as necessary.

And don't talk crap about the difficulty of checking all that information. If the government is so damm useless at it they can go ask the credit bureaus how it's done.

Undoubtedly our "friends and allies" will pisssandmoan. To hell with them. If they don't like it they can sit on the ground in europe.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Well, that part is correct.

The rest, not so much.

Good job, you now have a new threat list containing approximately one billion people.

I'm sure that method will effectively weed out everyone who is actually a threat and has an IQ of less than 80.

Don't be stupid. A billion muslims aren't flying at once.

A damm site more so than at present.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

A question. What is Israel doing in that department? IIRC, they had locks and security procedures long before 911.

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Good question. I'd be interested to know if El Al passengers have to endure the farce that we do, and the imbecillic bs that we'll be stuck with for the next year.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al

El Al security

As a target for many decades, El Al employs stringent security procedures, both on the ground and on board its aircraft. These effective, though sometimes controversial, procedures have won El Al a reputation for security.[38] In 2008, the airline was named by Global Traveler magazine as the world's most secure airline.[39]
[edit] Airport security measures

Passengers are asked to report three hours before departure. All El Al terminals around the world are closely monitored for security. There are plain-clothes agents and fully armed police or military personnel who patrol the premises for explosives, suspicious behavior, and other threats. Inside the terminal, passengers and their baggage are checked by a trained team. El Al security procedures require that all passengers be interviewed individually prior to boarding, allowing El Al staff to identify possible security threats. Passengers will be asked questions about where they are coming from, the reason for their trip, their job or occupation, and whether they have packed their bags themselves. The likelihood of potential terrorists remaining calm under such questioning is believed to be low (see microexpression).[40] At the check-in counter the passengers' passports and tickets are closely examined. A ticket without a sticker from the security checkers will not be accepted. At passport control passengers' names are checked against information from the FBI, Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS), Scotland Yard, Shin Bet, and Interpol databases. Luggage is screened and sometimes hand searched. In addition, bags are put through a decompression chamber simulating pressures during flight that could trigger explosives.[41] El Al is the only airline in the world that passes all luggage through such a chamber.[42] Even at overseas airports, El Al security agents conduct all luggage searches personally, even if they are supervised by government or private security firms.[43]
[edit] Flight security measures

Undercover agents (sometimes referred to as sky marshals) carrying concealed firearms sit among the passengers on every international El Al flight.[44] All El Al pilots are former Israeli Air Force pilots.[45]


El Al Boeing 777


The cockpits in all El Al aircraft have double doors to prevent entry by unauthorized persons. A code is required to access the doors, and the second door will only be opened after the first has closed and the person has been identified by the Captain or First Officer.[45] Furthermore, there are reinforced steel floors separating the passenger cabin from the baggage hold.[46] This is intended to strengthen the plane in case of an explosion.
Following an attempt to shoot down an Israeli airliner in 2002,[47] all aircraft in the fleet have been equipped with an infrared countermeasures system called 'Flight Guard', developed by Israeli Aerospace Industries to defend them against anti-aircraft missiles.[48][49][50] Although comparable systems such as CAMPS are now available for civilian aircraft, there is no information to date about any other airlines deploying such a system. Switzerland and other European countries have expressed concern that flares dropped by the Israeli system could cause fires in the vicinity of an airport.[51] However none of the higher risk countries that El Al aircraft fly to have raised any concerns.
[edit] Security controversy and passenger profiling

Critics of El Al note that its security checks on passengers include racial profiling[52] and have argued that such profiling is unfair, irrational, and degrading to those subject to such screening. Supporters of El Al argue that there is nothing inherently racist about passenger profiling and that special scrutiny of Muslims may often be necessary for security purposes.
The airline was also criticised by the Hungarian courts for refusing to search luggage with the passenger present, acting against Hungarian domestic laws which stipulate that only authorized officials are able to undertake such searches.[52] A civil case was brought to Supreme Court of Israel on 19 March 2008 alleging that El Al's practice of ethnic profiling singles out Arabs for tougher treatment.[53]

__________________
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99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
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Actually, if you read El Al's entry on wiki you'll see just what measures they take. Profiling of course is heavily used.

- Peter.

__________________
2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

The world will end up like that of the one portrayed in the movie "Demolition Man" with Sylvester Stallone, Sandra Bullock, and Westley Snipes. Everything, even sex, is either outlawed and/or completely controlled by the government. Even salt on your food, was against the law in the movie.

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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Profiling is used BECAUSE IT WORKS. Insurance companies profile when then can BECAUSE IT WORKS. Does it say that a guy with a clean record will not go out tonight and get a DUI? No. But when you compare one guy with a DUI and one without, one of them is a LOWER risk client.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
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04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

I do not understand the people who say non-Arab looking folks should be ignored or we should focus on Arab looking people. The shoe bomber did not look Arab, more Latin to me. Give him a hair cut, shave and put him in a suit and he would pass for a business man. The X-mass bomber looks like an average black man from anywhere in the world. Not sure how realistic it is but how hard would it be to have someone dressed up like "Mrs. Doubtfire"?

Were I looking to take out an airplane, I would start looking to recruit some pissed off white people. I think out of a world population of close to 7 billion I could find a hand full. May be I'll find a few Asians as well since no one is scred of them yet.

While El-Al may profile, everyone gets asked the questions. They may focus on certain folks but everyone from granny to Achmed get the 3rd degree.

As far as safe air travel is concerned, I think technology is where the answer lays. We need ways to detect the explosives before they enter the airplane. Why dogs are not being used more is beyond me. Between organic and non-organic sniffers, I would think we should be able to stop anything that goes boom.

I agree with the person who said we just need to get used to it. People are going to die. No system is 100%. At some point some on screws up or the mouse will out smart the trap and people will die. I think the est we can hope for is to win more times than we loose.

Perhaps at some point we will realize that our addiction to oil and our unwillingness to make sacrifices in that regard is helping to pay for the money to try and blow our asses up.

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- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

I used to fly about 1-200K miles per year and I've essentially stopped flying due to all the security BS, I maybe take 2 or 3 flights per year now and I still hate it. I probably account for $50K per year worth of lost business to the airlines. Try implementing something like the israeli system and see what happens to the airlines' revenue.

The nonsense you are suggesting is exactly the outcome that these guys are looking for; americans will always overreact when they are afraid, and they are very easy to scare. If this was a "war" (incorrect term), it would be an economic/psychological "war." They can mess with the wimpy americans indefinitely by coming up with new "threats" and watching them chase their tails, trying to reduce their risk to zero.

I think it's time for the full-body scan stuff, screw the "you saw me naked" school yard crap. Sure would cut down on time in line, and I can care less if some ex-hamburger flipper sees The Family Jewels. And I agree, more dogs. Any decent trained sniffer would have bagged this ahole in one breath.