Sooo, the terrorists win?? - Page 7 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pj67coll · #91 12-29-2009, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

At the moment, my work and familly are in america; when the opportunites are elsewhere, I'll go elsewhere; why would you care?

I don't particularly. It's just that as someone who chose to immigrate to the US because I regard it as the best place on earth to live I'm occasionally curious as to the motivations of American's who think it's crap/not worth maintaining/fighting for etc and think they'll find better elsewhere.

- Peter

MTI · #92 12-29-2009, 10:14 PM

It may not have anything to do with patriotism, love of country, loyalty . . . there have always been a healthy number of American expatriates around the world.

I would be curious to know what the statistic are for Americans that "give up" their citizenship and seek sole citizenship in another country, without being "on the lam."

Pavka007 · #93 12-29-2009, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

It may not have anything to do with patriotism, love of country, loyalty . . . there have always been a healthy number of American expatriates around the world.

I would be curious to know what the statistic are for Americans that "give up" their citizenship and seek sole citizenship in another country, without being "on the lam."

I don't know if you can find that info?? They are many countries who do not required that you GIVE UP your citizenship to become citizen...and the US is one of them. Years ago Germany was only country in Europe with such a requirement but they dropped it about 6 or 7 years ago. So it is normal this days for one person to hold multiple passports.
I've got few

#94 12-29-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

I don't particularly. It's just that as someone who chose to immigrate to the US because I regard it as the best place on earth to live I'm occasionally curious as to the motivations of American's who think it's crap/not worth maintaining/fighting for etc and think they'll find better elsewhere.

- Peter

My ancestors came to america a few generations ago when it was on the "upswing" and had more opportunity than most of the world, and they did OK. I'm not sure when it peaked, but I have the impression that america now has more history than future. I assume that the next big opportunities will be elsewhere in the world. When/if better opportunities for myself or my kids are available elsewhere, it will be time to leave. I don't see it as a big issue, not much different from moving between states for a better job. I guess I don't really identify with the place I happen to live; everybody has to be someplace. I don't really care about governments, as long as they mostly stay out of my way. I guess the question of citizenship would be mostly financial (taxes).

pj67coll · #95 12-29-2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I guess I don't really identify with the place I happen to live; everybody has to be someplace. I don't really care about governments, as long as they mostly stay out of my way. I guess the question of citizenship would be mostly financial (taxes).

Interesting. I think that attitude is part of what gives America more history than future.

- Peter.

#96 12-29-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Interesting. I think that attitude is part of what gives America more history than future.

- Peter.

Maybe, but all nations tend to have a life cycle. Nothing lasts forever, eventually they are all replaced by something else. In the modern world, the cycle seems to be quicker; the decline of Rome took centuries, the decline of the USSR took decades. Nations don't necessarily disappear, sometimes they just become inconsequential (like much of old europe). It's not good or bad, it just is.

I follow the rules and pay my taxes; I don't have to be enthusiastic about the government that runs this part of the world at the moment. I'm not anti-american (they've probably done more good than harm over their lifetime), I'm just not a cheerleader for any national government. The best government is one that I don't have to see, hear, or smell.

pj67coll · #97 12-30-2009, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Nations don't necessarily disappear, sometimes they just become inconsequential (like much of old europe). It's not good or bad, it just is.

The US will only become inconsequential if it's citizenry wills it. I'd rate your attitude as being at the forefront of such a will. Rather neatly summed up in a slightly different context I think by Walter Sobcheck in "The Big Lebowski". "**** it Dude, Let's go bowling."

Quote:

The best government is one that I don't have to see, hear, or smell.

Indeed. Good luck in your quest.

- Peter.

aklim · #98 12-30-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

no form of transportation is perfect. perhaps you like sitting in bumper to bumper traffic while burning through $3.00 gallon gas like it was water. I don't like that idea. I do like the idea of boarding a 300 MPH high speed train and being whisked to my destination minus traffic jams, jerk drivers who tail gate me while honking their horn and giving me the finger. in reality, I'd miss all that like a hole in the head. and, I used to really love to drive a car. no more, today's jerk-off self-serving drivers have ruined the experience. driving today is an exercise in self-survival, there is little to no fun in it at all.

Nobody is talking about perfect. Like I said, I don't have to go to a station, board a train and sit with a bunch of people I might or might not like. I can go as I please not as the schedule wants. Is that worth the hassle? I think so. When I get to the place, I will need a car to get around. I can rent one and get one I am not totally comfortable with or I can use mine.

aklim · #99 12-30-2009, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Yes, there is no comparison . . . except when you truly look at the passenger costs per mile; factor the risks of serious injury or death; compare the actual costs for maintaining the necessary infrastructure for both. There is likely some muss, maybe some fuss.

Nobody ever said that independence was free, did they? Rail service isn't free either. When I get there, what do I do for a car to drive around when I need to? I rent one. Even if I don't need one, I have to give up my independence and get into public transport and might have to share a small area with someone I'd rather not be next to. It will be a trade off. I happen to think that the car is a much smaller trade off to give me my independence instead of having to rely on someone else.

#**100** 12-30-2009, 12:24 AM

"**** it Dude, Let's go bowling."

I like that, I should rent that movie again.

Eventually america will disappear or become "inconsequential," just like every other nation-state that has existed throughout history. It probably will not happen in our lifetimes, or even out kids lifetimes; but it will happen. I'm sure the folks that lived in the Kingdom of Prussia in 1850 thought it was going to be around forever too. Regardless, I don't think I'm significantly contributing to their demise; I certainly pay enough taxes.

I agree that the perfect government would be completely invisible, but I don't think it exists anyplace either.

aklim · #**101** 12-30-2009, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I agree that the perfect government would be completely invisible, but I don't think it exists anyplace either.

Can't be invisible if you keep demanding more and more things of it instead of just having it there to make sure that chaos doesn't reign

HuskyMan · #**102** 12-30-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

The US will only become inconsequential if it's citizenry wills it. I'd rate your attitude as being at the forefront of such a will. Rather neatly summed up in a slightly different context I think by Walter Sobcheck in "The Big Lebowski". "**** it Dude, Let's go bowling."

Indeed. Good luck in your quest.

- Peter.

depending on which area of the country one finds him/herself, one finds varying degrees of willpower. why do any government services exist?

answer: because the people have decided that they want to offload their independence.

for example, back in the early days if one needed water at the house, one drilled a water well. no more, we hook up to city water and bleed off it like the leaches we are. the people gave up the will power to dig a well, instead they wanted the "easy way". now that they are good and hooked on city water (which, BTW, has enough carcinogens and chlorine in it to kill a horse), some municipalities have actually made using well water a CRIME punishable by jail time. so much for the "free water" idea.

since the people have surrendered their "free will" "independence" or "Sovereignty", they have truly become "wards of the state". same for "free trash service" "free postal service" "medicare" "medicaid" and a thousand other so-called "free" benefits. ain't nothing free.

the people have knowingly and willingly surrendered their independence for a pot of porridge. free "chicken in every pot" idea.

Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security."

- Norman Vincent Peale

Chas H · #**103** 12-30-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

depending on which area of the country one finds him/herself, one finds varying degrees of willpower. why do any government services exist?

answer: because the people have decided that they want to offload their independence.

for example, back in the early days if one needed water at the house, one drilled a water well. no more, we hook up to city water and bleed off it like the leaches we are. the people gave up the will power to dig a well, instead they wanted the "easy way". now that they are good and hooked on city water (which, BTW, has enough carcinogens and chlorine in it to kill a horse), some municipalities have actually made using well water a CRIME punishable by jail time. so much for the "free water" idea.

since the people have surrendered their "free will" "independence" or "Sovereignty", they have truly become "wards of the state". same for "free trash service" "free postal service" "medicare" "medicaid" and a thousand other so-called "free" benefits. ain't nothing free.

the people have knowingly and willingly surrendered their independence for a pot of porridge. free "chicken in every pot" idea.

Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security."

- Norman Vincent Peale

This has got to be the best strawman post of the week, maybe the month.

cscmc1 · #**104** 12-30-2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

I think it's time for the full-body scan stuff, screw the "you saw me naked" school yard crap. Sure would cut down on time in line, and I can care less if some ex-hamburger flipper sees The Family Jewels. And I agree, more dogs. Any decent trained sniffer would have bagged this ahole in one breath.

I have to agree with JR this time (scary as that is

).

Just got back from Germany on Monday (MUC --> LHR --> ORD), and the security in London was quite tight. Everyone went through the usual metal detectors at the main checkpoint, and everyone was patted down, and their bags checked, at the gate. This made for a LONG boarding process, but it's hard to whine much.

For the record, there were no unusual restrictions during the last hour of our flight. I had my book out, and my jacket in my lap, and no one said a thing.

cscmc1 · #**105** 12-30-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Can you guys cite anywhere in this country (or the world for that matter) where trains have made a profit ?

I'm not trying to be snarky, but I have not heard of any, and if anyone is going to propose that trains (slow or fast) are a good business option, then I'd like to hear about a 'success story'
...or, just let them rest on the 'save the earth' laurels - thats really enough for me, but I'd feel better voting for it if I thought that it was a good financial decision.

-John

Thank you. Rail works well in Europe (in part) because it is so expensive to own and operate a car there. There is incentive to take a train. I can't believe folks are considering the massive expenditures required to introduce high-speed rail and all its necessary infrastructure here in the US, where we have such a huge geographical area to cover to make rail travel a reasonable alternative to driving.