Nates guide for getting your vehicle serviced. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Nate · #1 05-16-2011, 01:43 AM

I have seen so many threads on vehicle servicing, that I feel the need to type up a guide.

Know your service shop! Finding a place you can get your work done without worrying about getting bent over, or having your vehicle hacked is essential!

Find a place who hires guys who arent mouth-breathing idiots. Look for ASE certifications, they should be posted prominently! If not, ASK TO SEE THEM! The ASE certs aren't hard to get, but they're not free, and they require an active interest in servicing a vehicle properly. Not everyone needs to be certified, but the more you see, the more trust you can have in a shop. Talk to the managers, let them know you've been taken advantage of by other local shops, and are looking for someone who can take care of your car at a professional level without overselling un-needed parts.
Check the employee parking area, if you see a decrepit mess, thats an indication of low wages which translates to low performance. If you see a muddy jeep, thats different then a rusted out tempo with bald tires...
Take a peak in the bays. The floor should be clean but not spotless, and toolboxes arranged in a reasonably neat fashion away from the cars. Some music going is good, but your looking for a shop, not a dance club. Look at the tire mounters and balancers. You are looking for a "rim clamp" machine if you have aluminum rims. A center pull is fine for steel rims, but will damage aluminum rims. You want a digital spin check type tire balancer, because the bubble ones cannot measure what the tire forces are doing at 75mph. Look for torque wrenches!

Be NICE!
I cannot count the times I've delt with people who came in with a chip on their shoulder, who left in a worse mood. It is a CAR, it is a mechanical MACHINE! Your car, will undoubtedly require maintenance! ASK WHAT INSPECTIONS THEY CAN DO FOR FREE, AND HAVE THEM DONE! This will give you a good indication of their attention to detail, and their maintenance abilities. Battery checks, belt checks, tire checks, shock/strut check, exhaust check, front end check... All should be free. Come in, be courteous to the counter person, but express your concern about your vehicle being special to you, and wanting it to be treated carefully.

TRUST NOBODY!
If there's a problem with the tire being worn out, a loose tie rod end, a leaky muffler, a cracked/frayed belt, or a dying battery, ask them to show you! A "may I see" is the easiest way to say I want to look at this to prove I'm not being lied to...This keeps every one honest... If they cant show you because of "safety concerns" politely state you want some safety glasses, or you want your keys back. MAJOR red flag if they refuse to show...

MBurg brought up a good point in another thread. You have a cell phone, it has an unholy amount of memory, and will take an OK picture. TAKE PICTURES PRIOR TO SERVICE! Getting new tires? Take some pictures of the wheels, drivers door, and lift points! Improperly lifting a vehicle will cause major body damage in a hurry... Getting an oil change? Breif engine over view showing all the caps in place, and it not being an oily mess. Ensure you ask for the front end AND DRIVESHAFT to be lubed. It's free, but often is skipped, and most people dont notice.

If it does need more work, ask the price estimate in writing, and the job time. If it's going to take more then say 2 hours, leave your phone number, and let them to call you as soon as it's done because your waiting for it. Dont sit in a service shop for 2 hours, thats dumb. Staring out the window at the techs does NOT help anything, other then make you look foolish. If theyre's a problem, they'll call you. If it sounds reasonable, approve it and be done with it. If your having brakes done, and your caliper's seized, thats quite possible. If your having tires off maintiance, and you havnt for a while, a seized stud or lugnut is possible... If you just had it serviced, and they "cant remove one" Take it to wherever the last tire was put on, and have them deal with it... If your having tires done, and your rim is bent..? It could be, but, check your pictures...

More to follow as the days go on, but, It's bedtime...

~Nate

dkveuro · #2 05-16-2011, 02:11 AM

As a one man shop operator I would like to add, I always take a set of pictures of vehicles that arrive for maintenance.

I would also like to say, the way to find a good shop is talk to the guys at the parts stores in town , NAPA, police station or fire department, especially if you need work while on a trip.

Ask who does good work on the vehicle you are now driving.

If your on a vacation or business trip and need work, don't just stop at the first shop you find, apply the above and also tell the shop your looking at real estate in the area, implying you are likely to be a regular customer. You're not lying, just letting them think you are not just passing through.

I am a member of iATN. We all strive to be the best we can and the web site offers a 'shop finder' for anyone to look up. http://www.iatn.net/shopfinder/

.

#3 05-16-2011, 02:24 AM

Good advice. I'm very fortunate to have a good shop that I've been using for many years. At this point, I just drop off a car and tell him the "make it right." He understands what that means and does not call me up to get authorization for every $100 nit that he finds. If he asks me to make a decision on a repair, I normally ask, "what would you do if it was your car?" and follow his advice. He explains exactly what he did and why he did it, I don't nitpick the bill, and he is more than fair with his charges. I tell him if I need it done fast, otherwise I make it clear that it's not a rush. When I do need something in a hurry, it gets done fast. I know all his guys, and they know me and my family. If my wife has a problem while I'm out of town, I call him up and ask him to "take care of it." He's not cheap, but he does excellent work and I trust him.

Jim B. · #4 05-16-2011, 03:24 AM

THAT IS GOOD ADVICE , THANK YOU Nate.

Bu how many females out there, or harried rushed males, or businessmen, or Toyota Camry or Honda Accord owners, or owner of similar drive it and forget it cars,minivans, or junk heaps, that know nothing, and care l4ess about cars, will take the trouble to follow it.

true example of such a person:

(I had a g/f, very young widow and a total sweetie, in San Jose call me up about a year ago, in horror this one time, and said "The orange dash lightthat looks like an engine, came on in my Honda Odyssey, it blew up, OH MY GOD !!! MY ENGINE blew up, I need a new engine!! Or a new car!! What can I do???!!" and of course if was the CEL I told her over the phone, the
"Check engine" light usually only means emission controls issues, I explained, and sent her to a good Honda mechanic in her area that she now adores that took care f the issue for a reasonable inexpensive price and provided good service and a ride home, that I found on www.yelp.com a consumer review site we use in California.) the car runs fine even now and she loves the shop and the service that they give locally to the minivan.

The temptation to "over-sell" is too much for somany shop owners, confronted with customers ignrance and trust, I guess

New car dealers, Firestone and Goodyear "service" centers, Midas muffler and Jiffy lube places (one Jiffy Lube one time tried to sell me a new transmission for my wife's Volvo in San Francisco!!!) all of them do it sometimes...

They do it because it so often works !!! Especially on people that don't take care of their cars, or who dont know or care anything about them. One woman I dated was a wealthy widow that actually seemed to believe me when I told her that the engine inside her then one year old $42,000 Buick Enclave was powered by squrirrels that ran around on an exercise wheel under the hood !!!!

She said for all that she knew it could be true.

And of course had never read the owner's manual. At 20,000 miles she had never even read the manual OR ever changed the oil even one time!!! I told her do BOTH right away, in the strongest terms I knew that were polite. Sometime fairly soon after that the driveshaft dropped on the ground, when she was going down the street in Roseville!

And people like this are everywhere, in this country, they vote, (usually Republican) they drive, they reproduce !!!! lolz

Last December my Mercedes was having some trouble getting out of first gear and a fairly local "German car" specialist told me immediately without even pulling the dipstick firstor looking at anything said I needed a new transmission at this mileage, it is $4,000, can we have the keys, please sign the work order.

I told them I could not afford it, and would have to non-op the car for a year.

I had heard them say business was slow and they were having tax trouble with the IRS, in casual conversation.hmmmmmm

I took it home,checked the dipstick, found it dry, and called my regular Mercedes mechanic in Sacramento and he said bring it on in, maybe it needs a good flush and service. (I admit I had run the car 40,000 miles that year and never checked the ATF dipstick.

With an SL R129 HD filter, a thorough flush and filter and new pan gasket modulator adjustment and new fluid, the car ran perfectly with a complete service, for $500 which included some other different repairs the car needed.

As opposed to $4,000 to replace the transmission I was quoted at the first place, which included 22 hours of shop rate labor, at about $95 per hour or something,

Creeps.

My car only needed a good ATF service that's all. .I have to stay with my Mercedes indie.

I might mention, he is a good guy and knows and loves to work on these.

At Chrismas time, in appreciation, I had stopped by the shop in my Grand Marquis (he joked that he thought the FBI had come!) and gave him a six pak or two or really really good Czechoslovakian beer, the best I could find, (Pilsner Urquell was nowhere to be found) and drove off.

He must have remembered, when I got into trouble a few months later....

Skippy · #5 05-16-2011, 05:05 AM

Good advice, to which I might add DIY whenever you can. This will increase your familiarity with your car so you will know what they are talking about when you do bring it to a shop. It will also save you money, both because you'll have a better grasp of which services they are trying to sell you are really needed, and also because many times it's cheaper and more satisfying to do it yourself.

That reminds me, I should probably bring Steve (owns the shop that is currently rebuilding the tranny in my '71) a dozen doughnuts or a bottle of good whiskey.

HuskyMan · #6 05-16-2011, 10:24 AM

I've noticed if the shop doesn't match the car lift legs properly to the mercedes lift points, damage may be a result. There is no substitute for mercedes technical experience. If they don't have direct experience working on benz (ASE cert or not), I'm outta there.

Hatterasguy · #7 05-16-2011, 10:30 AM

I have never had much trouble, other than not being able to find a place that can align any vehicle properly.

Daman858 · #8 05-16-2011, 02:55 PM

What burns my hide about some shops is that they try to take advantage of customers by making them think they are doing them a favor.

Took my wife's Toyota to the dealership for and oil change because they gave you a nice free car wash and vacuum. On the bill was something called a "Castle kit" for $19.95. When I asked what it was, the service manager said it was a fuel and oil additive that they put in each car and goes on to give me nice clean fuel system and nice slippery oil. I told him I didn't order this Castle kit and didn't want to pay for it and he got right indignant but took it off the bill. I even showed him the passage in the owner's manual that advises against using any additives.

What I found out later is that the Castle salesman gave a kickback to the shop for every kit they used. The tech would save the cap and turn them in and they would get like 50 cents for each cap. The salesman would also buy the shop pizza and sodas once a month or so. I called the attorney general's office in my state and they did a pretty god job of investigating and made the shop offer refunds or free oil changes to all those who paid for "Castle kits".

panZZer · #9 05-16-2011, 03:52 PM

Rim Clamp Machine! Ive never heard of one before.. thanks

Skippy · #10 05-16-2011, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

Rim Clamp Machine! Ive never heard of one before.. thanks

I'm used to thinking of it as a "regular" tire machine, with the other one being the "old" kind.

Is there still a shop in the U.S. that uses a bubble balancer? I saw one in a museum once.

Nate · #11 05-16-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

I'm used to thinking of it as a "regular" tire machine, with the other one being the "old" kind.

Is there still a shop in the U.S. that uses a bubble balancer? I saw one in a museum once.

Wheel Clamp=

Center Pull=

Bubble Balancer, able to be boughten by anyone at their local harbor freight

DIY when you can, to become more familiar with the workings of a vehicle. I DIY oil changes, but I dont save anything. I spend $18 in oil and filter, plus my time, plus grease and cleanup... It likly costs me more then to have a shop do it, but I use mobile 1 and go 5k miles...

If you didnt authorize a "castle kit" by signing an estimate with an itemized price on it, they had no ground to stand on. Yes, the sales rep buying pizza and soda goes a long way. I went to an A&W with my girlfriend (at the time) I ordered a burger, fries, and drink, she ordered a hotdog, fries and a drink... There was nobody else in the store, hadnt been for mabey half an hour. She asked if we would like to swap fries for onion rings/cheese curds, and drinks for a milkshake... Not what I was expecting, but i was thinking since it was slow they were going to expire some and wanted to get rid of it... My bad, ended up just a sneeky up sale, bill was $20 for 2ppl at a fast food joint. We ate, left, didnt ever come back. That stupid up-sale tactic worked then, but now their doors are closed! If someone asks would you like the floor vacuumed, or the headlights buffed, or whatever, ask if it's free or at what cost.

Our Napa man buys a few flats of doughnuts every once in a while. Our Carquest man puts on a free dinner with a sales pitch and tool show every few months. Where do you think we order parts from in 90% of all orders? It's not the store that takes 2 hours to deliver a lugnut who has mouth breathing phone jockeys running the commercial account lines...

Today, standard as standard gets. k1500 pickup in for 4 tires, and an alignment. Checked the front end, needed an inner and a pitman. Total bill (parts and labor) around $900, calling for 4 hours of work. The man said go for it, I'll wait here. The pitman was seized onto the steering box, even after cutting it... The steering box needed to be removed from the frame to remove the stuck pitman... 5 hours into it, I had to expain the hold up. I said we're still not done with it, have been having trouble. He said "I'm glad I didnt decide to try and do it, I'll go to dinner and I'll be back in a few hours"

Made life much easier not having the customer breathing down my neck for the service. Yes, grease from fingertip to bicep that required alot of scrubbing... But, I got it done, and aligned it. He asked for the breakdown of the bill, saw that it was for 4 hours of labor and asked what it actualy took... It was 7 hours, 4 of them with 2 guys working on it. "Guess I got a deal on labor then" And happily paid his $900 bill.

I want more customers like that.
Could I have just set the tow and it would have driven ok? Yes, but he wasnt in a rush, and doing rush jobs means cutting corners like accepting camber or caster that's at the far end of spec if the vehicle will drive straight.

Hatterasguy, your Silverado needs cam kits if the springs are sagging a bit. They're about $30 a side for parts, and about the same to put them (1/2 hour labor extra ontop of the alignment)

~Nate

loepke72 · #12 05-16-2011, 08:34 PM

Nate,

I wish more people on this board would realize that, as your example shows, the flat rate system works both ways. Sometimes customers end up getting a break on labor when things don't go as expected. Instead all too much I see complaining about labor rates if a tech gets the job done too fast and they feel ripped off because of that. Hey, if a tech can do the job efficiently without compromising the safety or integrity of the repair then IMO they are entitled to the extra money. The main purpose of the flat rate system is to get reasonably accurate estimates for the customer. Otherwise, if everyone got paid for the actual time spent conceivably someone could let a car sit all day after being repaired and the customer being billed for all that time. Problem is there is no perfect pay plan that will satisfy both the shop and the customer at the same time, so IMO flat rate is the better system even though I wish I were hourly instead as I'd get paid more the way things are where I work (not enough work to make 40 hours a week most of the time).

As far as alignments go, although I hardly ever do that kind of work I have seen cars that drove reasonably well that were way out of spec on the alignment rack and those that were perfectly aligned that had a pull to one side.

layback40 · #13 05-17-2011, 10:52 AM

Nate,
This has to be one of the most informative & useful threads in OD in a long time!!

All are indebted to you for showing the wisdom to start it.

I hope everyone continues to make positive contributions!!

Nate · #14 05-17-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loepke72

As far as alignments go, although I hardly ever do that kind of work I have seen cars that drove reasonably well that were way out of spec on the alignment rack and those that were perfectly aligned that had a pull to one side.

Yeah, its a toss up sometimes between radial tires, tire wear, alignment angles... And the occasional internal leak in the rack, causing it to pull to one side even with it dead on... Diagnosed by raising the vehicles front tires in the air, having the driver sit in the seat, and start the engine WITHOUT touching the wheel. If the wheel turns, you just found a really rare issue. Usual they leak externaly as well.

Anyways, I'll have more to post up in the morning.
~Nate

Nate · #15 05-18-2011, 12:56 AM

If a shop isnt busy, its common for other techs to help with the 1 car thats being serviced. Yes, your billed for 4 hours of labor, and yes it took 2 hours, but two techs were working on it. The concept of man hours is beyond some, but you cant give away the farm.

~Nate