Well, think about it. It was such a horrendous episode that the only way many of us kids could deal with it was by laughing at it, the old gallows humor....which I consider a very healthy thing.

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This thread has me hot under the "collar" and a bit "Choked" up.

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For the Saved, this world is the worst it will ever get.
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I agree with most of what you have said but how do you propose that teachers would enter the profession or even more so stay in the profession if there were no salary raises?

Unless the teachers are starting out at a very high salary I don't see how paying a first year teacher the same as someone who is a very competent teacher would work.

I do agree that salary reform for teachers could use some revamping but I don't see the logic behind this??

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2009 ML320 Bluetec
1985 300CD
1981 300TD

Past Mercedes
1979 300TD
1982 300TD
2000 E320 4Matic Wagon
1998 E430
1984 300SD
1980 300SD

Most good teachers enter the profession because they like kids and have a knack for guiding the learning process. Like most musicians like to play music. In both professions money is important but it is not the primary motivator. So you pay them a base salary that provides a middle income salary. If they are particularly motivated to work in failing schools you offer them more. If they teach STEM courses you pay them more. If they teach SPED you pay them more. If they earn advanced agrees you pay them more. If they undertake management rolls you pay them more.

Pay them more for DOING not for BEING.

I understand that most get into teaching because they like teaching/working with kids. But only a select few stay in teaching just because they like teaching. Most like the security and salary schedule along with the hours.

You added a bit more to clarify your original statement including giving them pay increases for advanced degrees. This needs to be in place as educators need to be educated. So I guess I now agree with everything in your first statement.

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2009 ML320 Bluetec
1985 300CD
1981 300TD

Past Mercedes
1979 300TD
1982 300TD
2000 E320 4Matic Wagon
1998 E430
1984 300SD
1980 300SD

The salary schedule and hours. Uh huh. That's it.

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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

Ah hell, I make stuff up as i go along. Fasten your seatbelt.

Something needs to be done about tenure. Yes, it protects all teachers from meddling by school boards, a serious problem in every district I've lived in. Unfortunately, tenure also protects bozos who should not be influencing young minds. I've seen too much of that, too. There's got to be a better way.

You have correctly defined the problem. Now, what is the solution?

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

^^^ reply to Bot's post
I agree that that is the way educators' pay is determined.
At the same time, it guarantees that the best teachers end up as administrators, and are lost to the classroom, and the students. A great example of the Peter Principle in action.
It also helps explain the top-heavy administrative costs of education.
The DC school system was recently criticized for not maintaining schools and classrooms while spending big money to redecorate the executive suites.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Peter Principle is not a problem unique to the educational system or even to government.

True enough.
I believe the statement of the principle begins, " In ANY hierarchy....."

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

They key to disrupting the Peter Principle, IMO, is effective management at each level into which a person maybe promoted and management at least one layer above that.

Dunno what Peter said. I admit, I never cared enough to read about it. The short version is so accurate I didn't feel a need to learn any more.

I discovered it right after I graduated from college. Waiting around that summer, I did sales in an appliance store--I was pretty good at it. I read the book, and then passed it on to my manager--he was not quite so impressed with it as i was. Then I realized that he probably thought I was telling him he was already at his place of least efficiency. Good thing I was only summer help.

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1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

Experience brings wisdom, but only after one has tried everything else.