More on the Gulen movement - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #16 05-01-2012, 03:19 PM

Yes, I know exactly who it is. I also know who he reports to. The organization has a very strict hierarchy with a clear chain of command. All of this is very difficult to prove and is not evident to the casual observer. It probably is also not written down anywhere.

carry · #17 05-01-2012, 03:19 PM

Well, guys.. I am gone a few hours and I am all of a sudden a mouth of propaganda machine. You are so deeply subscribed into a conspiracy theory that you ended up believing everything that seems to fit your frame. Please don't push your views that much; you may have to revisit them later. No need to judge so quickly!

Here are some remarks to clarify a few things:

- None ever questioned Kerry why he initiated a conversation in the first place about a social movement in a forum dedicated to Mercedes car parts. Kerry is trustworthy, credible, innocent but when someone responds to his post, he is propagandist, handler, all sorts of bad things. How fair!

- As to how a "handler" ended up on Mercedes car parts forum, everyone knows that there is a thing called Google Alerts. Gulen movement is one of the many things I follow news on things I am interested. When I saw how people are quickly laying out judgements freely, I couldn't help registering and posting my response. If you are imagining a central office assigning agents on desks to various tasks, you are dead wrong. I am just a regular businessman trying to live a decent life with his family, right here in Somerset, New Jersey. I am married to a lovely woman and have two kids, 10 and 8. If you want to visit me and get to know me (see how I am part of this so-called "propaganda' machine), you are always welcome (oopps!, this sounded like a missionary zealot! too bad!), just drop me a line..

- There is no need to be lost in all sorts of conspiracy theories, people.. Just read more about things you want to know more, meet people, challenge them if their way concerns you. It is not American to go around labeling people.

- Just to add more on the NYT reporters, yes, the reporter lives in Istanbul but does this make him a reliable person if his primary sources are critics of his subject matter? Here is a note. One of the people quoted in the article, Bohurler, publicly denied her remarks as quoted in the original article (International Herald Tribune) yet, the NYT didn't make any change in the rerun version. But, the title of the article was changed from "Shadowy Force Grows in Turkey" to "Turkey Feels Sway of Elusive Cleric in the US." Different audience, different agenda!

- If you read my post one more time, all I did was to invite you to read more on Turkey and Turkish politics. Without knowing the history of Gulen movement or the history of Turkish politics, your assessment is likely to be flawed or inaccurate. I gave you only a few hints about Turkish politics, didn't try to persuade you some hardcore facts, or didn't place labels on anyone, didn't call anyone "idiot" like some did in this thread. I know each person posting here subscribes to different ideals and values. But interestingly enough, I have been treated by all as a religious zealot, propagandist, handler, liar, puppet, etc at the same time. On what facts? Just a few lines I dropped here as a response to some claims. How lovely is this level of civility!

- I wish I would hear some responses to questions I raised in my original post including the nature of Turkish politics, the nature of anti-Gulen movement circles in Turkey, the nature of Turkish army's role over the Turkish society. All of these things are interrelated with the role and significance of the Gulen movement.

Hope you overcome your desire for judgements in rush in the future.

Happy Mercedes parts to everyone!

davidmash · #18 05-01-2012, 04:10 PM

Great Kerry. You have gone and brought a pox upon our houses. Just great. Now everyone remain calm and no one gets hurt .... now where is the number for Wit Sec.......

kerry · #19 05-01-2012, 07:55 PM

Our new found friend is very persistent, while there may be no additional posts on here, I'm hearing from him.

One additional point. In the original post he suggests that my view of an organized response to this article doesn't make sense because my 'handler' contacted me the day before the article was published. But as both Carry and I know, there was an original version of the NYT article published in the International Herald Tribune (NYT's international paper) well in advance of the NYT piece. I think that original was published 4/18/12.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that this poster is my 'handler'. He's just a Gulenist.

The Swede · #20 05-01-2012, 09:16 PM

Oddest thread eva'.

davidmash · #21 05-02-2012, 12:26 AM

What exactly is a handler in this context and what are they supposed to do?

kerry · #22 05-02-2012, 12:39 AM

In most major US cities, the Gulen movement has an organizational office. They are typically set up as foundations and emphasize Turkish culture. Those offices are responsible for contacting local politicians, academics and professionals who are ripe to hear Gulen's message of 'humanism, science and interfaith dialogue'. These people are offered trips to Turkey where Gulen institutions are visited and the guests are lavished with Turkish hospitality. The 'handler' near as I can tell is responsible for making sure that these people are getting the right message and thinking about Gulen in the right terms. The offices sponsor dinners and speakers where the merits of Gulen are praised and the commitment of the Gulen movement to democratic values is emphasized. Most handlers have a pretty easy job, near as I can tell because most people are easily convinced that Gulen is a Turkish Robert Schuller or Norman Vincent Peale. This is partly the case because the main opposition to Islam comes from conservative Christians or the right wing of American politics. The people the movement targets don't want to be seen as associated with either of these groups.

kerry · #23 05-02-2012, 12:53 AM

The need for these positive views of Hizmet is that secular Turkey is a long time ally of the USA and Gulen is not in favor of Kemalism, the ruling ideology of Turkey because of its secularism and concentration of wealth in the hands of a secular urban elite. As the movement gains political power in Turkey it doesn't want to alienate a close ally.

But the need for a positive image is not just applicable to Turkey. The movement needs to keep a positive image in the USA. The movement has at least 120 schools in the USA. These are elementary, middle and high schools which emphasize education in science and math. Most are charter schools and funded with US tax money. There is some evidence that some money going to these schools ends up funding the Gulen movement insofar as some teachers brought over from Turkey are required to give part of their salary back to the movement.

kerry · #24 05-02-2012, 01:10 AM

AMERICAS - Gülen charter schools in US lawmakers' crosshairs

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-schools-in-us-involved-in-suspicious-money-transactions-new-york-times-reports.aspx?pageID=438&n=turkish-schools-in-us-involved-in-suspicious-money-transactions-new-york-times-reports-2011-06-07

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2010-08-17-turkishfinal17_CV_N.htm

chilcutt · #25 05-02-2012, 01:15 AM

Let me get this straight. Christian groups inside of Turkey, with the aid of Right wing groups from the United States are attempting to wipe out Islam?

kerry · #26 05-02-2012, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Let me get this straight. Christian groups inside of Turkey, with the aid of Right wing groups from the United States are attempting to wipe out Islam?

Huh? I'm talking in the USA. Christian fundamentalists and right wing Republicans in the USA are likely to be opposed to Gulen. So his movement courts liberal protestants and democrats. Gulen lives in the USA. He was initially denied a green card, but on appeal he won his green card on the grounds that he had special talent as an educator, despite what I found to be a compelling argument by the State that he in fact had no unique talents as an educational theorist.

davidmash · #27 05-02-2012, 01:28 AM

This is just really weird.

kerry · #28 05-02-2012, 01:28 AM

This group collects a vast amount of interesting information on the Gulen movement:

A Guide to the Gulen Movement's Activities in the US - For charter school parents

http://gulencharterschools.weebly.com/how-the-schools-serve-the-gulen-movement.html

disley · #29 05-02-2012, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

In most major US cities, the Gulen movement has an organizational office. They are typically set up as foundations and emphasize Turkish culture. Those offices are responsible for contacting local politicians, academics and professionals who are ripe to hear Gulen's message of 'humanism, science and interfaith dialogue'. These people are offered trips to Turkey where Gulen institutions are visited and the guests are lavished with Turkish hospitality. The 'handler' near as I can tell is responsible for making sure that these people are getting the right message and thinking about Gulen in the right terms. The offices sponsor dinners and speakers where the merits of Gulen are praised and the commitment of the Gulen movement to democratic values is emphasized. Most handlers have a pretty easy job, near as I can tell because most people are easily convinced that Gulen is a Turkish Robert Schuller or Norman Vincent Peale. This is partly the case because the main opposition to Islam comes from conservative Christians or the right wing of American politics. The people the movement targets don't want to be seen as associated with either of these groups.

I can see a correlation with AIPAC and Likud.
They operate in a similar way.

kerry · #30 05-02-2012, 09:29 AM

Except I'm not sure if those organizations have been creative enough to tap into American tax dollars for funding. The schools are roughly equivalent to schools run by Scientologists. It's actually a very smart strategic move by the Gulenists. It's an international organization with thousands of members living in countries with cultures unfriendly towards traditional conservative values, particularly the role of women. If the children of these families were raised in standard US schools there's a high probability their view of the world would become incompatible with Gulenist Islam. So the schools help assure that the next generation of followers are as subservient as the current one.