WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School - Page 12 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

whunter · #**166** 12-15-2012, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Exactly how did us bleeding hearts take the teeth out of the legal system? Is this the same type of bleeding heart judge who told a woman she did not resent the rape though and said the crime was only worth 6 years?

IMO you don't vaguely approach my definition of a bleeding heart.

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davidmash · #**167** 12-15-2012, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

Bleeding heart judges are judges who are extremly sympathetic towards those who are accused of crimes.

Bleeding heart jurors are extremely sympathetic towards criminals, ignoring or blaming the victim.

Two days before Heights rape, judge postponed perp's sentence on drug charges; let him walk - New York Daily News

NewsMax.com: Inside Cover Story

Justice Left Behind | LOVE FREEDOM TRUTH

Judge overturned the jury verdict, and caused years of appeals + millions in court cost.
A jury in 2005 convicted Seaman of first-degree murder, but the Oakland County trial judge reduced it to second-degree murder. A state appeals court later reinstated the jury's verdict.
Court overturns decision granting new trial to Detroit-area teacher who killed her husband

NOT a bleeding heart judge or jury on this one...
'I thought I was going to be killed,' mayor says at sentencing hearing

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Were there any legal justifications for the actions?

I was the foreman on a jury for a DUI case. We were all pretty convinced that the guy was drunk, probably over the limit. Thing is the cops stretched and twisted the truth on the stand. The video of the perp back in the station house did not show what they claimed happened. Since they basically lied and tried to steer us to believe what they wanted us to believe instead of saying that the tape was shot over an hour after the arrest and some of the intoxication wore off, we had to acquit the guy.

Does that make me one of those bleeding hearts too? Sometimes the law does not work the way we want it too. Sometimes guilty go free so that innocent people do not go to prison. No one said the system is perfect.

By the way, are there any examples of case where a conservative hard nose judge was biased against someone and let a perp off with a light sentence? May be one that might have been mentioned on this forum in the last day or two? Are there any of those?

davidmash · #**168** 12-15-2012, 11:20 PM

I think this drug thing is a dead end road. The mass killings may be a product of a drug issue. The mass killings are only a small portion of the gun deaths in the US. Look at Zimmerman, look at Jordan, look at all the other gun related deaths. Not sure how many of those are drug related but I have not seen any statistics to indicate they are any more than a small percentage.

davidmash · #**169** 12-15-2012, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whunter

IMO you don't vaguely approach my definition of a bleeding heart.

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Not sure if that is good or bad...

davidmash · #**170** 12-15-2012, 11:40 PM

Sorry for being snarky but I am just so frustrated at having this conversation over and over and over. Something needs to happen.

edge · #**171** 12-15-2012, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Sorry for being snarky but I am just so frustrated at having this conversation over and over and over. Something needs to happen.

That's because you are trying to reason with unreasonable people...

barry12345 · #**172** 12-15-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Sorry for being snarky but I am just so frustrated at having this conversation over and over and over. Something needs to happen.

There is the problem in a nutshell. Probably nothing is going to happen basically. Except the endless media coverage perhaps giving some other maladjusted individual stimulation to consider some simular avenue of approach. There are enough mental basket cases out there to go around.

His shooting his mother and the students could have been simple revenge in his mind for his mothers failings as a mother in his opinion for example. Or perhaps she did exibit enough backbone reciently not to put up with his crap anymore and he responded in a fashion.

Terrible I know but things like this are possible as a small percentage of the population evolve with no evidence of having any consience at all. Whatever it is sick but to call it a mental illness may be so but conclusivly so perhaps not. To blame others for your own failings is also another possible common venue. When you combine this with any of many other factors things like this can result although this example is extreme. What I wonder and probably will never be known. Was there any indication he was very far from the norm in general behaviours and getting progressivly worse?

Considering any form of gun control once they have been dispersed through society tends to be pointless. We had a gun registry system for a few years up here in Canada. The result? Many guns went into hiding and were not registered. Or some owners only registerd a few of theirs. The program cost more than billion dollars or perhaps two billion before it was dropped. It achieved almost nothing.

cmbdiesel · #**173** 12-16-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

I have not read every post in this thread, so my apologies if i seem to repeat others comments....

Opinion.

I lay the blame strictly on the shoulders of the media. Sensationalizing this ad nauseum for hours on end with only the sole intention ( So it seems.) of finding out who had done it and publishing his picture for the world to see .

You'll all remember the Columbine shooters, the collage shooter, and the Washington sniper etc, by sight and name....but who of you can name one victim ?

Because of this notoriety, someone watching this, somewhere, is going to top it. They will want to go out in a blaze of glory having bested an already atrocious crime.

Most of us do not, or have never been inside a mental institution and seen how the mind can and does weird things to ones frame of reference, from voices to irrational thought. ( Watching 'One Flew Over The Cuckoos' Nest' does not count. )

This railing against gun ownership is a mistaken cure for this kind of thing. More attention to the drugs prescribed to people should be addressed. Eli Lilly was central to a law suit about Zyprexa, one company amongst other pharma companies with dubious record of drug side effects. Prosac and other drugs are similarly suspect.

The mental heath of all these individuals along with their medical records is in question as no reasonable person could be capable of such horrific acts.

I have no solution to these happenings but for one, don't think gun control is going to make any difference....as has been said, only the law abiding will conform.

In the UK, gun crime is still a problem, and then are you going to ban fertilizers and weed killer, knives, sharp pointy objects etc etc.?. How about motor vehicle traffic...they kill thousands around the globe each year....aircraft can kill hundreds at a time but we still fly.

Schooling every kid at home is not going to work either. More gun crime is committed in homes than in the street. If you need to see how casual some folk are about killing...watch the video of the guy gunned down in the street in New York the other day.

I see the gun ban lobby as a knee jerk reaction. No doubt something else will happen in a little while and the public, being what it is, will move on to that. We are a strange species.

...besides, here's a thought. When there's trouble...how come we call people with guns ?

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Maybe because you haven't read the thread, you missed the fact that no one is here railing against gun ownership.
However, there is a desire from many to see more responsible owners.
A desire for gun owners to admit that there is a problem with guns in this country.
A desire to see gun owners step up with ideas to keep the guns in the hands of the responsible people, and out of the hands of the nut cases.
A desire to hear something other than "ITS MY SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHT TO OWN WHATEVER F**KING GUNS I WANT!!!!"

Addressing the pharmaceutical issues in our country is also a great plan of action, but those motherf**kers have even more money and politicians in their pocket to shield their business than the gun makers....

The weed killer/car/knives/sharp pointy objects BS is a complete red herring and goes right back to the lack of rational discourse coming from the gun folks.

3/4 of the guns used by mass murderers in the US were purchased legally.
I see that as a little bit of a problem for the 'only outlaws' line of argument.

You want to know why we call people with guns when there is a problem?
Because every POS petty criminal in this country has a gun.
That's a problem.

Ara T. · #**174** 12-16-2012, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Nope. Never have and I doubt that will ever change.

Not looking for utopia. Outlawing guns is not the answer and I have not advocated that. I want tighter restraints on gun ownership. I want to make sure you do not sell your weapon to an under aged kid with fake ID. I want to make sure that your weapons are stored in a safe secure location and are very difficult to steal. I want to make sure that you are responsible for the actions of your weapon.

These are my ideas. What are yours? Do you even have one? Do you have an idea that will help prevent the slaughter of people? Are there other nations which have strict gun laws that have low crime rates? May be Japan? Two gun related deaths in 2006. They had a murder spree in 2008 and had 11 deaths. UK? Only 18 deaths in 2009. Germany? They had 158 homicides in 2010. Australia may have had a spike in other crimes, what they were caused by is not known but their homicide was 207 in 2007 and 225 in 2008.

I suggest you come to the table with something other than "No".

Comparison

Gun Policy

Uh....
There is regulation in place affecting private sales of weapons (preventing underaged kids with guns, as you say...); they must be done through a federally authorized gun dealer unless you want to risk 50 years in prison. Trigger/chamber locks are required to be sold with guns (at least in CA), and last time i bought a gun from Big5 Sporting Goods i even had to sign an affidavit stating i owned a DOJ approved gun safe (and had to provide the make/model of said safe). Despite this, it falls under the responsibility of the gun owner to store their firearm and keep them from criminals (or ****ing nutjob relatives) if someone chooses to break into their home. Unless you expect monthly gubmint inspections or what have you.

Hey... that might be a good idea. Helluva economic stimulus considering all the manpower needed to do so with the 300+ million guns in the US to inspect

anthonyb · #**175** 12-16-2012, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkveuro

In the UK, gun crime is still a problem, and then are you going to ban fertilizers and weed killer, knives, sharp pointy objects etc etc.?. How about motor vehicle traffic...they kill thousands around the globe each year....aircraft can kill hundreds at a time but we still fly.
.

Sorry, but when was the last time fertilizer was used to kill dozens of people? Here in the US it's been almost two decades. Weed killer? Can't recall off the top of my head. Knives? I see that a crazy man in china recently wounded a bunch of kids, but most of them lived. The last time before this that someone killed a bunch of strangers with a gun? Less than six months ago.

Let's talk about motor vehicle safety. People seem to really like comparing guns and cars. Cars kill tens of thousands of people in the United States. Actually, about the same numbers as guns do. Why is it that there is an intense focus on automobile safety on the part of government, the insurance industry AND the automobile industry, yet with guns all we do is criticize people for proposing ANY kind of condition on gun ownership? If we thought about automobile safety the same way we think about gun safety, there would be no seatbelts, no airbags, no insurance or registration requirements, no recall requirements, no restrictions on drunk driving.

Commercial aviation? Safest mode of transport in the world. In the US, only 150 people have died on commercial airplanes in the last 10 years. No thanks to government regulation apparently. If we applied gun fatalities to commercial aviation, that would be the equivalent of four 737's crashing each week, 52 weeks a year. Do you think that people would really keep flying with that kind of safety record?

davidmash · #**176** 12-16-2012, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ara T.

Uh....
There is regulation in place affecting private sales of weapons (preventing underaged kids with guns, as you say...); they must be done through a federally authorized gun dealer unless you want to risk 50 years in prison. Trigger/chamber locks are required to be sold with guns (at least in CA), and last time i bought a gun from Big5 Sporting Goods i even had to sign an affidavit stating i owned a DOJ approved gun safe (and had to provide the make/model of said safe). Despite this, it falls under the responsibility of the gun owner to store their firearm and keep them from criminals (or ****ing nutjob relatives) if someone chooses to break into their home. Unless you expect monthly gubmint inspections or what have you.

Hey... that might be a good idea. Helluva economic stimulus considering all the manpower needed to do so with the 300+ million guns in the US to inspect

In Texas we do things a bit differently. We do not give a crap who buys a gun.

Quote:

Sec. 46.06. UNLAWFUL TRANSFER OF CERTAIN WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered intends to use it unlawfully or in the commission of an unlawful act;

(2) intentionally or knowingly sells, rents, leases, or gives or offers to sell, rent, lease, or give to any child younger than 18 years any firearm, club, or illegal knife;

(3) intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly sells a firearm or ammunition for a firearm to any person who is intoxicated;

(4) knowingly sells a firearm or ammunition for a firearm to any person who has been convicted of a felony before the fifth anniversary of the later of the following dates:

(A) the person's release from confinement following conviction of the felony; or

(B) the person's release from supervision under community supervision, parole, or mandatory supervision following conviction of the felony;

(5) sells, rents, leases, loans, or gives a handgun to any person knowing that an active protective order is directed to the person to whom the handgun is to be delivered; or

(6) knowingly purchases, rents, leases, or receives as a loan or gift from another a handgun while an active protective order is directed to the actor.

(b) In this section:

(1) "Intoxicated" means substantial impairment of mental or physical capacity resulting from introduction of any substance into the body.

The operative word here is 'knowingly". You cannot prove what I know. If you come to me to buy my gun, I don't have to ask any questions. You can show me a fake ID and I do not have to know it's real or not. I am not going to ask any questions and I am not going to verify your answers. I do not have to file any paper work. You give me money and I give you a gun and we go our separate ways. You're underage with a good fake ID, no problem.... here's your gun.

Texas is not unique in this. My understanding is gun shows have quite lax requirements for person to person sales as well.

Dubyagee · #**177** 12-16-2012, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

So we have established that you do not wish to sacrifice any rights that you have. What about the rights of the 26 people murdered in CT. The rights of the kids murdered in Columbine. The rights of the people murdered every single day in this country. When do we get to talk about protecting their rights? When do the 'gun rights' folks come up with a plan to protect their rights?

So far all I have heard from you and most of the other gun owners is no no no.. I have yet to hear them make a suggestion on how to fix the situation. As CMB said, either start playing ball or you may well end up behind the eight ball. People like me are getting fed of of seeing people murdered left and right and we are getting quite tired of folks like you saying you will not move an inch from your position. I think it's time you give a little or have a lot taken. Your choice.

Who the hell do people like you think you are? Stating it will be taken from us. Be tired all you damn want, you will not infringe my right. Elitist authoritarian BS.

People like you protest and demand laws for this and laws for that and nothing gets resolved (gun free zones). CRIMINALS DONT GIVE A FLYING FLIP ABOUT LAWS!

He shot innocent people and then himself. No law would have stopped that. You can cower and depend on a government to protect you all you want I prefer protecting myself.

Take this to the bench and people like you will lose.

Obama wont try a backhanded executive order no matter what his protester minions demand.. Political suicide.

MagnumPI · #**178** 12-16-2012, 01:25 AM

End compulsory schooling. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Mommy goes to jail, and little Susie gets to find out about molestation from Mr and Mrs Foster pervert or psychopaths know exactly where to find lots and lots of victims, with unaccountable babysitters whom have zero tolerance for anything resembling a weapon for miles.

davidmash · #**179** 12-16-2012, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

Who the hell do people like you think you are? Stating it will be taken from us. Be tired all you damn want, you will not infringe my right. Elitist authoritarian BS.

People like you protest and demand laws for this and laws for that and nothing gets resolved (gun free zones). CRIMINALS DONT GIVE A FLYING FLIP ABOUT LAWS!

He shot innocent people and then himself. No law would have stopped that. You can cower and depend on a government to protect you all you want I prefer protecting myself.

Take this to the bench and people like you will lose.

Obama wont try a backhanded executive order no matter what his protester minions demand.. Political suicide.

You guys thought the see thing aboutnequal marriage rights. How is that working out for you?

Restrictions are coming. Gun owners will be held responsible for the weapons. Better learn to deal with it.