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  #631  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Lordy, you just can't help yourself.

Well sir, with numbers like that to reassure and inform us, why would anyone be dismayed at the fact of 20 some killed by a pantywaist?

Your statistic is of "violent crime." Tell me which mass slaughters by US peoples against other US peoples have been perpetrated without firearms? There are some, McVeigh and that ass in SoCal with the Buick, probably an accident. Such attacks are a very small subset of "violent crime."

I believe the topic is the mass slaughter of the week.
In the data, I believe 'slaughter' is not addressed as a category but perhaps 'violent' encompasses it? What do you think?

Guilty! I can't help myself -- I am burdened with requiring facts and from them, derive a rational opinion. I recognize it prevents me from intuitively reaching for the stars, unbound by reason, logic or even facts. Here I plod in Real World. Where my opinion must adequately explain facts, not vice versa.


I haven't found comparative mass slaughter data. Maybe we can imagine what it should be and go from there.

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  #632  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Take for instance the 5.5 per 100K firearm murders by police. Those are all registered firearms. Police have a higher gun violence rate than the general population. Therefore, registered guns are a danger.

I love correlation!
Nobody is claiming that unregistered guns are not a danger.
This tangent is in response to Hattie claiming that the kid could have just gone to Hartford or New Haven and gotten a gun on the street corner. Also in response to Dubya when he posted about the ineffectiveness of handgun bans in DC... and BC when describing the handgun violence in NYC.
Registering weapons should create the ability to track the weapons history and expose the people who are putting them out on the streets.

All the weapons used in LEO firearm murders were registered?
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  #633  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
The greatest mass murder of children in US history was through the use of explosives.
And that's happened once, precisely because it's a much more difficult procedure. The unfortunate boy/man in this story would not likely have found the skill to pull that one off.
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  #634  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
Is there historical precedent of that in this country? ....
In progress. Be patient and I have absolutely no doubt you will have your wish come true in your life time.
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  #635  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:30 PM
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By the way, I sold a pistol to a friend today. It was unregistered when I bought it at a store. My friend took the pistol home so he and his wife can shoot it. If he wants it he will pay me tomorrow.

I bought the pistol (a Ruger .22 semi-auto with a bull barrel) for about $120 new. He's paying me $200. Hell, inflation probably makes it worth $600!

I feel extremely good about the transaction.
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  #636  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
In the data, I believe 'slaughter' is not addressed as a category but perhaps 'violent' encompasses it? What do you think?

Guilty! I can't help myself -- I am burdened with requiring facts and from them, derive a rational opinion. I recognize it prevents me from intuitively reaching for the stars, unbound by reason, logic or even facts. Here I plod in Real World. Where my opinion must adequately explain facts, not vice versa.


I haven't found comparative mass slaughter data. Maybe we can imagine what it should be and go from there.
Dude: the topic of the day is one twit rapidly bringing about the deaths of a bunch of people. I'm more OK with him punching a teacher or slashing at a couple of people with a knife. But at some point, we have to ask how much horsepower in killing capacity do we want people to possess or brandish with impunity? I suspect we'll not soon see former prison gang denizens driving about the streets with Somali style technicals.

'But, but,' howleth the Botnst, 'you're taking my rights guaranteed by contract and stuff.'
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  #637  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Dude: the topic of the day is one twit rapidly bringing about the deaths of a bunch of people. I'm more OK with him punching a teacher or slashing at a couple of people with a knife. But at some point, we have to ask how much horsepower in killing capacity do we want people to possess or brandish with impunity? I suspect we'll not soon see former prison gang denizens driving about the streets with Somali style technicals.

'But, but,' howleth the Botnst, 'you're taking my rights guaranteed by contract and stuff.'
It might help to have some actual data about the actual threat so that one could suggest actual solutions to actual problems.

Just saying.
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  #638  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:47 PM
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Remember the videos of LA in the aftermath of the Rodney King beating? In some neighborhoods the only businesses left standing were the ones that the owners actively protected with personally owned firearms. Remember the videos of the guys with guns standing on the rooves firing to keep the looters and arsonists away? Ask those guys about your ideas.

We who have lived through collapse of services in the aftermath of a hurricane, etc feel pretty damned near the same way.
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  #639  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
And that's happened once, precisely because it's a much more difficult procedure. The unfortunate boy/man in this story would not likely have found the skill to pull that one off.
If we can have faddish platform shoes and wide lapels, or 2-toned Chevy Impalas we can have weapons fads.

I'll bet it's a fad. Explosives are easy to mix, obtain and use -- 1,000 Al Qaedstas can't all be geniuses, right? But the fad is to use firearms while explosives are so yesterday. Maybe we'll get lucky and have a blast.

If Americans got into a machete thing we'd do like Central Americans and hack at each other.
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  #640  
Old 12-17-2012, 10:58 PM
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Like a car, registration, permits, licenses, etc are all about those who are willing to obey the rule of law. Personally I believe that gun owners should have a responsibility to insure themselves and others from the improper use of their possession. Of course, I can see where insurance companies might have an issue with this- getting to charge substantial rates- but I'll bet they would be happy to duke it out with the NRA. I'm sure something could be tacked onto the health care laws requiring citizens with legally owned guns to cough up a wad of dough to keep them.

As an aside-
Ct has some oddities to pistol permitting- the NRA basic pistol class is required for a pistol permit. The pistol permit means concealed carry. The basic NRA class however does not train for concealed carry or prepare the student for 'real life' situations. I've taken the basic course and no way did it qualify me for concealed carry. To carry a pistol to a range to practice though I need a pistol permit. How many permitted, untrained, unprepared persons are now lugging pistols around?
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  #641  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
Events in Australia might indicate otherwise. In 1996 a mass shooting in Port Arthur, Tasmania left 35 dead and 23 wounded, the largest single incident in the world at that time I believe it was said. Laws were passed and enforced that would qualify as gun control and the results are reportedly good.

Gun control: After Connecticut shooting, could Australia's laws provide a lesson?
If you like making fun of people for "conspiracy theory" you should google
"port arthur" conspiracy

There are a whole lot of people close to that incident who believe it was staged and can back their position.
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  #642  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:03 PM
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Maybe while we're at it with the 'arm the teachers' movement, we should also require children to wear bullet proof vests. They can even make some "Hello Kitty" kevlar jackets for the girls, and "Mr. Superman" kevlars for the boys.

And we can all live happily ever after, as long as my right to bear is not infringed upon.

Last edited by ruchase; 12-17-2012 at 11:18 PM.
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  #643  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jplinville View Post
Southern Ohio Lunatic Asylum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The above is the specific facility that I'm referencing...today, it serves the area as 10 Wilmington Place, a high end retirement community. In the late 80's, we used to go inside at night and check out the "rubber rooms" that were in the basement. The place scared the bejesus out of us, which is why used to go there...to scare the hell out of each other.

It closed in 1979...Reagan wasn't POTUS until 1981.

EDIT It actually closed in 1978. In 1979 it was added to the National Register of Historic Places in an attempt to keep developers from tearing it down, which has been the norm in the Dayton area for years.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/oh/oh0400/oh0402/data/oh0402data.pdf
Reagan-era cuts slashed mental health care

If you google you will find numerous articles related to the Reagan era cuts to mental health funding. this is just the first article listed. The above institution happened to close before them but I believe a lot more closed afterward.
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  #644  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:27 PM
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Certainly teachers can be trusted with guns and handcuffs. But wait, what if one of them handcuffs and sodomizes a kid? Just go ahead and ban handcuffs now, just the thought of it... I guess we could always get the preachers to pray for them.
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  #645  
Old 12-17-2012, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
By golly, I'm impressed! So much psychology, so few facts!

Here are some facts that might be fun for you to consider:
8% of violent crimes are committed with firearms (not broken down by type -- too bad).
6% by knife (not broken down by type -- too bad).
7% by blunt objects (not broken down by type -- too bad).
73% by NO WEAPON

Apparently people really do use their giant penis extenders to commit violent crime more than they use either guns or knives.

Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Weapon Use by Offense Type
Now lets look at that by fatalities.

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