WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Fulcrum525 · #1 12-18-2012, 02:11 PM

Ugh 48 pages which was 46 when I started typing this response. You guys have worn me out (I was at work for a few days and have had to play catchup)

I have to say that I agree with Brian's earlier large post about comment
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/3067002-post228.html
People are always going to be violent. Whether they use guns, longbows or swords it is a trait that we will not soon shed.

If I may ask. What is the core argument here? (The thread has been swaying back and forth on a number of topics and it's become hard to keep track of where we are.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnumPI

Oh really?
Army eyes new first-person shooter game to train soldiers - Nextgov.com

Ok a couple of things on the video game argument. I would like to point out that there is a difference between a First Person Shooter and a Millitary-Simulation game. The link above would (if it worked) go to one of the later developments of a game called Operation Flashpoint which I own.

Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One clear distinction that needs to be drawn is that in the vast majority of first person shooters you are "The Man". You can run through a room and you are pretty much indestructible and can take out anything. There is a sense of vulnerability but not much. Someone is shooting at me with a flamethrower? No problem i'll just run right through it. 5 enemies shooting at me? No big deal I can take ten hits no problem and take them all out at the same time.

Now in a Mil-Sim like Flashpoint you are CONSTANTLY vulnerable just as one would be in real life. One hit and you're done and it often comes without warning too. When you're in the middle of a field with your assault rifle in a first person shooter it makes you invulnerable. In Flashpoint standing in that field when a column of T-80s comes rolling down on you any feeling of "I'm the man" disappears like a piece of paper in a fire. This is the big difference between realistic games which are niche and the much more common, and violent, first person shooters. It is interesting to note that in the market for video games these mil-sims NEVER sell anywhere near as well as the first person shooters. I guess people like the feeling of power.

Furthermore anytime the video game violence question is brought up I always question one thing. As far as I can tell every time a shooting like this has happened the perpetrators have gone in ready for battle but in the end have either given up or killed themselves as soon as the police showed up. I can't recall an incident where they stood their ground and actively fought the police (I think Jorns comments about being mentally prepared for such acts of violence come in to play and make the video game connection a mute point)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruchase

I agree with you. The proposed solution is the very threat we are trying to prevent. What if an armed teacher loses their mind and turns against their students? Yes, there will be other armed teachers to take this individual out, but the first time this happens, the 'arm the teachers' strategy will be abandoned, and we'll be back to square one.

Yes I was thinking the same thing as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwitchKitty

Anti-gun zealots are absolutely the best gun salesmen in the world. When gun control is a hot topic, gun sales skyrocket. I bet you can call gun suppliers now and they are already sold out of many items and prices are up on others. With gift buying season here, coupled with gun control fever, I bet this will be the hottest gun sales season ever. Those ATF background check computers are probably just a hummin'. I predict record sales numbers in some areas.

Propaganda and marketing are the same thing. The old saying goes something like: "no bad publicity".

You're probably right. Last night when I was on my way to get a hair cut I passed a local gun store.....the parking lot was packed and overflowing and 3 people pulled into it as I was trying to take a turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

Gents, let's try a different tangent on this -
What about fighting fire with water?

Many of these methods, used to incapacitate an attacker until the LEO's arrive, might be quite acceptable to teachers, parents, and the population as a whole - whereas lethal weapons on school grounds most probably would not - and much more likely to be used, from a psychological standpoint, as the person employing said device KNOWS that they can only incapacitate, not kill.

Ideas?

It's actually a very reasonable compromise depending on the type of non-lethal device used. A large bottle of pepper spray has a very decent range from what I remember reading. Trouble is in that case is getting the spray on target while (hopefully) not getting shot in the process. I'm sure other options are out there though.

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For the current time being i've been avoiding watching TV because the media coverage of this event is at times sicking. Also i'm only scanning news articles as I would like to wait until we have a bit of hard evidence as to WHY this little dip**** was compelled to do what what he did. One thing that strikes me is that violence and lack of economic opportunity tend to go hand in hand. (I believe that someone somewhere can post some statistics about violence and poverty levels correlating.) So when shottings like this happen I am often confused as to why. I was reading about the home that this dip**** lived in and his parents lives. It's not like he was starving, far from it actually; if anything the family was quite well off. So why would he throw it all away is what I would like to know. (I suppose that in the end suicidal psychopaths are difficult to understand.)

One story that really made me burn was hearing about a threat called into a church during a vigil for the massacre. Talk about digging under the bottom of the barrel to hit rock bottom.

JB3 · #2 12-18-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

For the current time being i've been avoiding watching TV because the media coverage of this event is at times sicking. Also i'm only scanning news articles as I would like to wait until we have a bit of hard evidence as to WHY this little dip**** was compelled to do what what he did. One thing that strikes me is that violence and lack of economic opportunity tend to go hand in hand. (I believe that someone somewhere can post some statistics about violence and poverty levels correlating.) So when shottings like this happen I am often confused as to why. I was reading about the home that this dip**** lived in and his parents lives. It's not like he was starving, far from it actually; if anything the family was quite well off. So why would he throw it all away is what I would like to know. (I suppose that in the end suicidal psychopaths are difficult to understand.)

One story that really made me burn was hearing about a threat called into a church during a vigil for the massacre. Talk about digging under the bottom of the barrel to hit rock bottom.

I was in NYC waiting for the police press conference, and im sure others saw this as well, but I was pretty offended at the live camera showing people laughing and joking waiting for the conference. Cancel the live camera, or get those SOBs to show some decorum for the situation.

Everything thats been said in this thread about media sensationalism is no less than true. I havent been watching any news on TV after that either.

They just reminded me of a pack of smiling dogs, circling for the kill of ratings

Air&Road · #3 12-18-2012, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

I was in NYC waiting for the police press conference, and im sure others saw this as well, but I was pretty offended at the live camera showing people laughing and joking waiting for the conference. Cancel the live camera, or get those SOBs to show some decorum for the situation.

Everything thats been said in this thread about media sensationalism is no less than true. I havent been watching any news on TV after that either.

They just reminded me of a pack of smiling dogs, circling for the kill of ratings

Yep, almost as disrespectful as the gun grabbers that can't even wait for the funerals to be over with before starting their assualt on our right to bear arms.

JB3 · #4 12-18-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Yep, almost as disrespectful as the gun grabbers that can't even wait for the funerals to be over with before starting their assualt on our right to bear arms.

If you don't want to talk about issues as they happen, then whats the point? The shooting raises questions on gun control, as the tools used to kill dozens of children was guns.
1+1=2 last I checked.

Of course, for you, 1+1 usually equals Q, im waiting for your usual rant on how this is Obama's fault by the way. New leaf?

Air&Road · #5 12-18-2012, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

If you don't want to talk about issues as they happen, then whats the point? The shooting raises questions on gun control, as the tools used to kill dozens of children was guns.
1+1=2 last I checked.

Of course, for you, 1+1 usually equals Q, im waiting for your usual rant on how this is Obama's fault by the way. New leaf?

Sure, I'll talk about the issues. Apparantly the difference between you and I, however, is that I have respect for the dead. There is the right time for everything and now is not the time.

Bring me the video of Obama at the trigger, gunning down innocent children and I'll accommodate your wishes.

JB3 · #6 12-18-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Sure, I'll talk about the issues. Apparantly the difference between you and I, however, is that I have respect for the dead. There is the right time for everything and now is not the time.

Bring me the video of Obama at the trigger, gunning down innocent children and I'll accommodate your wishes.

yet here you are. talking.

Convenient how you have respect for the dead, and anyone who disagrees with your solutions on how to deal with the problem does not. Of course, you haven't posted any solution that I can name, only that you don't like gun grabbers, so whats your actual message in this thread?

You are concerned only about what may affect you, up to and including worrying about things of yours that might be taken if others have their way. That is as selfish as your other posts in general, which is no surprise.

I am willing to believe that everyone on this thread has plenty of respect for the dead, whatever their opinions, and plenty of us are absolutely tired of the same crap happening again and again in the same way.

Air&Road · #7 12-18-2012, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

yet here you are. talking.

Convenient how you have respect for the dead, and anyone who disagrees with your solutions on how to deal with the problem does not. Of course, you haven't posted any solution that I can name, only that you don't like gun grabbers, so whats your actual message in this thread?

You are concerned only about what may affect you, up to and including worrying about things of yours that might be taken if others have their way. That is as selfish as your other posts in general, which is no surprise.

I am willing to believe that everyone on this thread has plenty of respect for the dead, whatever their opinions, and plenty of us are absolutely tired of the same crap happening again and again in the same way.

If you actually knew what you were talking about it might be funny.

You might want to go back and read the title of this thread. When you do, if you find the part requesting a solution, please share your clairvoyance with the rest of us.

JamesDean · #8 12-18-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Sure, I'll talk about the issues. Apparantly the difference between you and I, however, is that I have respect for the dead. There is the right time for everything and now is not the time.

Bring me the video of Obama at the trigger, gunning down innocent children and I'll accommodate your wishes.

When is the appropriate time ?

Why is now not appropriate?

Who decides when it is appropriate?

I dont think there is any required "wait time" for discussion possible solutions/actions to problems of this magnitude.

I dont think by any stretch that Larry would point the finger at his favorite politician and his fearless leader, BO.

cmbdiesel · #9 12-18-2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Yep, almost as disrespectful as the gun grabbers that can't even wait for the funerals to be over with before starting their assualt on our right to bear arms.

More partisan BS, and you spew it out over the bodies of the victims...

You should be ashamed of yourself.

JamesDean · #10 12-18-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

Ok a couple of things on the video game argument. I would like to point out that there is a difference between a First Person Shooter and a Millitary-Simulation game. The link above would (if it worked) go to one of the later developments of a game called Operation Flashpoint which I own.

Operation Flashpoint: Cold War Crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

One clear distinction that needs to be drawn is that in the vast majority of first person shooters you are "The Man". You can run through a room and you are pretty much indestructible and can take out anything. There is a sense of vulnerability but not much. Someone is shooting at me with a flamethrower? No problem i'll just run right through it. 5 enemies shooting at me? No big deal I can take ten hits no problem and take them all out at the same time.

Now in a Mil-Sim like Flashpoint you are CONSTANTLY vulnerable just as one would be in real life. One hit and you're done and it often comes without warning too. When you're in the middle of a field with your assault rifle in a first person shooter it makes you invulnerable. In Flashpoint standing in that field when a column of T-80s comes rolling down on you any feeling of "I'm the man" disappears like a piece of paper in a fire. This is the big difference between realistic games which are niche and the much more common, and violent, first person shooters. It is interesting to note that in the market for video games these mil-sims NEVER sell anywhere near as well as the first person shooters. I guess people like the feeling of power.

I have played Operation Flashpoint before. It is unlike any of the "first person shooters" out there. Its MUCH more realistic. Probably so much to the point where the "average" gamer would not want to play.

I would agree, people like the feeling of power and badassery (in the form of being THE MAN")

Fulcrum525 · #11 12-18-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

I have played Operation Flashpoint before. It is unlike any of the "first person shooters" out there. Its MUCH more realistic. Probably so much to the point where the "average" gamer would not want to play.

I would agree, people like the feeling of power and badassery (in the form of being THE MAN")

That's exactly why it didn't sell all that well.

(Most gamers that i've talked to have never even heard of it) One of the problems is that most people just didn't have the patience for it. (Then again you're talking to someone who as also played Harpoon and liked it)

SwampYankee · #12 12-18-2012, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

One story that really made me burn was hearing about a threat called into a church during a vigil for the massacre. Talk about digging under the bottom of the barrel to hit rock bottom.

And another threat called in at the other elementary school in Newtown.

To top it off, those @$$holes from Westboro are supposed to make an appearance.