WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School - Page 54 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmbdiesel · #**796** 12-18-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I have a problem with making laws so that people can be arrested who otherwise were doing no harm. That's a police state.

You must hate speed limits....

Botnst · #**797** 12-18-2012, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

You must hate speed limits....

Yes.

Next?

davidmash · #**798** 12-18-2012, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

As the saying goes, "Locks don't keep people out, they only keep honest people honest". Laws, regulations and punishment only keep honest and law abiding people, honest and law abiding.

That does not seem to make any sense. If laws etc are the only thing that keep s law abiding people law abiding then in reality they are not law abiding people because only the laws are doing it so then law ... are making crooks obey the law. Good people do not need laws to tell them what is god or bad. Only bad people would need that. If the laws etc disappeared the bad people would run amok far more so then they already are. Stands to reason that if the laws are keeping bad people in check then more stringent laws might do a better job.

Jorn · #**799** 12-18-2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

How are you going to implement this? How are you going to make sure everyone has gun safes and that is the only place they keep their guns?

Very simple: just when you register your car and have to show proof of insurance you have to show proof of ownership of a certified gun safe in your name when purchasing a gun or rifle. No big deal. If they are going to store it in the save is another question.

Botnst · #**800** 12-18-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

That does not seem to make any sense. If laws etc are the only thing that keep s law abiding people law abiding then in reality they are not law abiding people because only the laws are doing it so then law ... are making crooks obey the law. Good people do not need laws to tell them what is god or bad. Only bad people would need that. If the laws etc disappeared the bad people would run amok far more so then they already are. Stands to reason that if the laws are keeping bad people in check then more stringent laws might do a better job.

I would say that it is a balance. You and Walgamuth are correct in that a network of laws, tightly enforced, offers the greatest possible security.

The most free people have very poor security, indeed. They must provide their own.

Somewhere between is probably where we all wish to be.

For me, making laws to catch people doing something who have not harmed anybody is an infringement. I completely understand that mine is a minority view and I accept that.

But it doesn't change my belief or opinion nor does it infringe (yet) on my belief that I should articulate what I believe, even when it is unpopular.

davidmash · #**801** 12-18-2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

How are you going to implement this? How are you going to make sure everyone has gun safes and that is the only place they keep their guns?

Again, most of my guns are in a safe, but two are loaded at all times and easily accessible to anyone in my immediate family. They are to be used in a case of home defense only, and those that live in my home know their location as well as how to use them properly. I refuse to keep ALL of my weapons in a safe.

To a degree it would be the honor system with the threat of jail time if you bet wrong. If someone breaks into your house and steals your guns which are then used in the commission of a crime and you have no safe or that safe is not blown to smithereens and you did not report the theft and destruction of your safe then you will being seeing the inside of a jail right along with the person who used the gun. I would think that would be a pretty adequate incentive.

Same reason most of us have insurance. Hope you don't need it but just in case your house gets wiped out ..... nice to have.

Botnst · #**802** 12-18-2012, 10:10 PM

Few tools are more useless than a gun locked in a safe.

It's like having the police only minutes away.

Gee, thanks.

davidmash · #**803** 12-18-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

This slope argument is so tiresome. There's NO evidence for it. When the assault weapons ban was put into place, the nutjobs were just sure it was the end of 2A rights. The slippery slope argument was the first thing out of their big mouths. If it's a slope, it must be REALLY GRADUAL. Gimme a break already.

That is why I have no interesting in banning anything. I just wanted the weapons registered and have title transfer when they are sold. Fed could spot checks. Pull random serial numbers and verify that the gun is in the possession of the person named on the title. If it's not, the last name on the title will have some explaining to do.

Botnst · #**804** 12-18-2012, 10:15 PM

Yeah, because the gov always has our best interest at heart, we should trust the gov.

Ignore history.

davidmash · #**805** 12-18-2012, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

I do not believe this boilerplate argument fits the discussion we have been having here. That argument is for a different set of people with different ideas.
And the slope business is so completely hackneyed as to be laughable

One could just as easily argue that the RWNJ gun freaks leap out within seconds of a tragedy screaming "GUN GRABBERS!!!!!!" Happens every time.
They trot out their numbers which show that our murder rates are declining, and have been for years, without mentioning that they are still heads and tails higher than any other civilized country.
Cutting and pasting the dictionary.com definition of 'infringe', all the while suggesting that other people must suffer restrictions on their freedoms because the 2nd shall never be restricted. (unlike restrictions on the 1st and 4th which a vast majority of citizens accept as reasonable and responsible.)

The foundation is eroding, it needs shoring up.
Again, how can you accept restrictions on some rights but not others? Because it directly impacts your toys?????
Anyone who kills others is a thief.

Get real. You shouldn't be posting or reading this, you should be out helping the families.

No it isn't. It is responsible government.
You do realize that amendments can be repealed?
Keep taking the hard line, and that may be on our horizon.

I don't know, but whoever it is, is likely a DB.

Beyond that, when you look at the laws that have been implemented they have been so watered down and are targeting things that have no bearing on what is really happening. As far as I am concerned, we do not have any serious gun control laws in this country. I can go up to any person selling a gun, give him money and walk away with a gun. There is nothing in TX state law to prevent me from doing that.

davidmash · #**806** 12-18-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

I would say that it is a balance. You and Walgamuth are correct in that a network of laws, tightly enforced, offers the greatest possible security.

The most free people have very poor security, indeed. They must provide their own.

Somewhere between is probably where we all wish to be.

For me, making laws to catch people doing something who have not harmed anybody is an infringement. I completely understand that mine is a minority view and I accept that.

But it doesn't change my belief or opinion nor does it infringe (yet) on my belief that I should articulate what I believe, even when it is unpopular.

Perhaps I am missing something but would you rather have a law in place that prevents you from being killed or one that is in place that will prosecute the person who just killed you?

I am trying to present ideas that I think would help prevent the person from getting a gun to kill you, if it fails we can still prosecute but I'd like to prevent your death if at all possible.

davidmash · #**807** 12-18-2012, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Few tools are more useless than a gun locked in a safe.

It's like having the police only minutes away.

Gee, thanks.

When you are with the gun it would not have to be in the safe.... when you are not with the gun it should be in the safe. That way if someone breaks into your house when you are not home they do not have access to the guns.

davidmash · #**808** 12-18-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Botnst

Yeah, because the gov always has our best interest at heart, we should trust the gov.

Ignore history.

At some point you have to trust something. I do not see the US government confiscating our guns any time soon. The people in the US I think are pretty unique. We have a pretty unique government (only one of it's kind I believe) and our mentality seems to be quite unique. US history says it has not happened and I do not see the future being much different. I could be wrong. The system we have right now does not work. I'm all ears for your idea.

unkl300d · #**809** 12-18-2012, 10:38 PM

Another interesting perspective:

David Kopel: Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown - WSJ.com

and this:

Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill: A Call to Action Against TV, Movie & Video ... - Gloria Degaetano, Lt. Col. Dave Grossman - Google Books

TwitchKitty · #**810** 12-18-2012, 10:41 PM

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Your intentions may be good, reserving that.

The laws aren't working and we don't have anyone competent to fix it. More laws, more mess.

The idea that you are comfortable with corporate lobbyists changing the Bill of Rights is beyond belief. Must doubt your intentions after all.