WTH is wrong with some people??? Shooting at CT Elementary School - Page 66 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Air&Road · #**976** 12-20-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

You have more faith than I.
How many "hiding" places are there in a house? In a house where mom or mom and dad work so the kids are free to roam and explore. Kids never manage to find stuff their parents hide do they? Like "those " books and movies. Kids probably have a better knowledge of stuff in their parent's house than the parents do.
Your second paragraph is interesting--it states that current laws are not effective, and then makes the curious LEAP that future laws will be effective.
Its easier to believe ( and smarter, too) that something that has happened in the past will happen again than to assume that something that has never happened will happen. Gun laws do not prevent gun deaths.

Yes, that's the mindset of many liberals. Just pass a law or throw money at it and the problem will be corrected. The only good (if you can call it that) that comes from this, is that a politician manages to use the BS to win the next election.

Someone in the past thought that they were preventing this from happening when they passed the thousand feet law.

How did that one work out?

JamesDean · #**977** 12-20-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I concur. While its a good idea in principle, in practice its not always great. The human element always comes into play.

Does that mean I think its not a worthwhile idea to keep guns locked up? No. I would lock them up if I owned any.

Or if they were to be left around the house haphazardly, they would be left with components missing so that they would be nothing more than paperweights. But I suppose even that could fail, what if I forget to take out that component? Or forget to unload? or put on the safety? What if my cat gets wise and decides she's had enough of me not feeding her all the food she wants?

Personally, I dont own a gun and probably never will. The problem will always be the human aspect.

JamesDean · #**978** 12-20-2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Yes, that's the mindset of many liberals. Just pass a law or throw money at it and the problem will be corrected. The only good (if you can call it that) that comes from this, is that a politician manages to use the BS to win the next election.

Someone in the past thought that they were preventing this from happening when they passed the thousand feet law.

How did that one work out?

Well I mean, ultimately that's pretty much all government can really do..pass laws or spend/tax money. The only other thing they can do is NOT pass laws and NOT spend/tax.

As I see it there are only a few courses of action:

1) Control/Restrict Guns

2) Institute some form of mental healthcare something or another

3) Fortify schools/etc against this sort of thing. Metal detectors, security check points, that sort of thing...a TSA but for school and whatnot.

4) Do nothing. Reform nothing, institute nothing.

raymr · #**979** 12-20-2012, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Yes, that's the mindset of many liberals. Just pass a law or throw money at it and the problem will be corrected. The only good (if you can call it that) that comes from this, is that a politician manages to use the BS to win the next election.

Someone in the past thought that they were preventing this from happening when they passed the thousand feet law.

How did that one work out?

There are some simple free steps that can be taken (lock up your guns).

Yet the people that reject those ideas have no problem spending money for a government program that attempts to identify and neutralize potential nut cases. A most likely impossible task at that, unless every single individual is screened and tested, including illegal aliens, etc.

t walgamuth · #**980** 12-20-2012, 09:22 AM

There is an Architectural solution which could be implemented at little cost on new buildings. Instead of having windows to the outside all the windows can be toward an interior courtyard. To enter one would have to enter a space that could be shut to keep them there if they prove to be armed, like the entrances of old castles which provided a room with heavy gates on the outside and another gate leading inside the castle. If enemies broached the first gate there were slits so that they could be rained with arrows from above.

So our schools could have Solid brick walls facing all exteriors, with all windows to the inside. Safe room entrance for any strangers to come into and not be let in or out until known safe. If a person was found to be armed they could be held for police to pick up.

Sounds a lot like prison doesn't it?

That's what we used to call it as I remember!

Come to think of it, what is done in Israel?

JB3 · #**981** 12-20-2012, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

I'll waste this last post to you, then I'm done explaining it to you and David...It is impossible to enforce all gun owners having a "certified" safe. The only thing you would succeed in doing is causing more money to be spent by law abiding gun owners, as well as countless regulations on what a certified safe should or should not contain. If someone wants to illegally get a firearm, they're going to do it no matter what the law says. That's been proven time and time again.

What you are proposing is nothing more than trying to appease emotions...

As for the number of guns someone owns...how many cars, or pens, or anything do you own? I personally own the multiples of same gun in multiple different configurations.

Here in PA, all handgun sales go through an FFL person, it's called a transfer. They don't track registrations, as it's against the law here...However, they track the transfer. Also, some rifles must go through an FFL dealer for transfer as well. Again...they don't require registration.

you completely missed my point. The point was, a good safe is often around the value of a decent gun. Many gun owners own multiple guns, many even double digit guns. You are telling me they can't hold off on one of these toys to buy a safe for about the same money? Its really that big an imposition on you when you are going to turn right around and buy a new 600 dollar firearm to add to you collection next time you have the cash?

Again, the idea of owning a safe is so mild and makes such decent sense that it simply boggles the mind that so many gun owners who call themselves responsible have such a problem with it.

JamesDean · #**982** 12-20-2012, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

There is an Architectural solution which could be implemented at little cost on new buildings. Instead of having windows to the outside all the windows can be toward an interior courtyard. To enter one would have to enter a space that could be shut to keep them there if they prove to be armed, like the entrances of old castles which provided a room with heavy gates on the outside and another gate leading inside the castle. If enemies broached the first gate there were slits so that they could be rained with arrows from above.

So our schools could have Solid brick walls facing all exteriors, with all windows to the inside. Safe room entrance for any strangers to come into and not be let in or out until known safe. If a person was found to be armed they could be held for police to pick up.

Sounds a lot like prison doesn't it?

That's what we used to call it as I remember!

Come to think of it, what is done in Israel?

It does sound like a prison!

Why don't we just build our school underground, like fallout shelter/bunkers?

Actually, that would be sweet. The engieering, architecture and planning around fallout shelters is...

JB3 · #**983** 12-20-2012, 10:57 AM

this is a self perpetuating disaster on the roll if you look at it clearly.

Every time we have a mass shooting, we have a run on gun sales for "protection".

However, the increasing flood of self protection firearms does nothing to decrease the frequency of the mass shootings.

The only way people will actually listen to realistic gun control laws that IMO opinion as a radical gun control believer, are far too mild, is if we can demonstrate that a firearm purchased after one mass shooting for self defense ended up being a firearm used in a later mass shooting. That might be a wakeup call.

We need to research when and where the last 30 mass shooting incident weapons were purchased, and for what reason if that can be known. Maybe a correlation between a panic to own a weapon, and later misuse of the weapon, if clearly shown, would get through to the average gun owner who sees even the mildest regulation as an assault on their idea of freedom.

Brian Carlton · #**984** 12-20-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dropnosky

Every time we have a mass shooting, we have a run on gun sales for "protection".

Wrong.

That is not the reason there is a run on gun sales.

raymr · #**985** 12-20-2012, 11:02 AM

Not sure about armed security at schools either. Someone mentioned hiring vets to do the job. The idea of having an armed dude with PTSD around my kids all day every day is a little bothersome too. A rent a cop service would likely be shifting personnel around so there may be a good guy there one day and a creep coming through the next, again armed. All unknown strangers.

MS Fowler · #**986** 12-20-2012, 11:23 AM

Maybe we are asking the wrong questions.
What has changed in American culture that causes so much anger, hostility, and murder?
Earlier in our history guns were probably more prevalent ( as a % of the population)than now, but there were less mass shootings, WHY?

( What prize goes to the 1000th post?)

Brian Carlton · #**987** 12-20-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

( What prize goes to the 1000th post?)

The last AR-15 before the ban.

JB3 · #**988** 12-20-2012, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Wrong.

That is not the reason there is a run on gun sales.

No. In many cases right.

Listen to the horses mouth if you don't believe me-

(article first posted by huskyman in another thread)
Gun Sales Up After CT Shooting: Store Owner | NBC 7 San Diego

Spring Valley residents David and Jessica McLaughlin spent some time Sunday shopping for a gun. They say their neighbors and their grandparents have been robbed recently.
David wants the ability to protect his family that includes his 16-month-old son. “The police can only get there so fast,” he said.
However, Jessica McLaughlin said she was motivated by recent events. “All the stuff on the news, the violence, especially the shooting of the children,” she said. “Now we have our son, it's just really important to us to protect our family.”

Id say the core reason is twofold, not just black and white. We are both right in that respect. People think that gun ownership will be restricted, and want the weapons because they feel that they will have additional protection. Now is the time to buy for those reasons

Txjake · #**989** 12-20-2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

Wrong.

That is not the reason there is a run on gun sales.

right. something like this is:

"knock on the doors and ask the people who answered if they had any weapons. "We are here now to protect you," the soldiers said, "and no one has a need for a weapon anymore." P...eople who said that they kept no weapons were forced to stand aside and allow the soldiers to look for themselves . . . . [This all] took nine or ten days, and once the soldiers had concluded the villagers were no longer armed they dropped their pretense of friendliness.[110]"

Kymer Rouge.

guage · #**990** 12-20-2012, 11:32 AM

Isn't the rate of homicides by gun dropping in the USA, compared to 20-30 years ago?