Do you. - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

aklim · #76 01-09-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Yes, that's what I'm saying, but I don't have any belief whatsoever that you will agree with or believe what I am saying. I would, however, insert the word "true" in your above statement between the words "every" and "believer."

How are we defining a "true" believer? By some definitions, if you don't do X, Y and Z, you are not a true believer?

Further to that, your statement means that no true believer should be without and I have seen some faithful believers that are without.

JB3 · #77 01-09-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I've always found the world of many atheists/agnostics to be quite interesting. Although I rarely hesitate to state my opinions on things, I've never been one to try to push my religious beliefs off on others, except for a few, rare, close and personal conversations.

The world of atheists/agnostics OTOH seems to contain many people who REALLY put forth a case for why others should join him in his disbelief. If you don't believe, FINE, have at it.

It just seems very odd that many of those who do NOT believe are so BENT on trying to convince others not to.

Just sayin'.

This statement in general is opposite of the history of the world. Its never been a question of those that don't believe trying to force not-beliefs on others. Not even on this forum.
Traditionally, those of one belief are CONSTANTLY trying to make those of other beliefs convert to theirs. The more strongly you believe in a religion, the more comfortable you feel pushing it on others, as the more convinced you are of being in the right.

Every religion has an system of pushing their religion.

aklim · #78 01-09-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I've never been one to try to push my religious beliefs off on others, except for a few, rare, close and personal conversations.

It just seems very odd that many of those who do NOT believe are so BENT on trying to convince others not to.

Just sayin'.

Is that like "I'm slightly pregnant"?

Does it seem odd that many who DO believe are so BENT on trying to force others to conform to their rituals? What was that parable about the beam and moat in the eyes again?

Just sayin'.

martureo · #79 01-09-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

So if there was a Jesus, what does it prove?

That he existed.

Quote:

Unless that book can prove that the Jesus we are talking about existed, what does it matter?

Now you're moving the goalposts.

Quote:

We are talking about Jesus, the alleged son of god not Jesus the carpenter.

Is there a difference?

Quote:

First step is to show that this character existed. Next is to show that he IS the son of god. If the book can show that, I'll buy it.

The Bible does that quite well on it's own.

Now if you also reject the Bible, then we have a problem.

Benz Fan · #80 01-09-2013, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I've always found the world of many atheists/agnostics to be quite interesting. Although I rarely hesitate to state my opinions on things, I've never been one to try to push my religious beliefs off on others, except for a few, rare, close and personal conversations.

The world of atheists/agnostics OTOH seems to contain many people who REALLY put forth a case for why others should join him in his disbelief. If you don't believe, FINE, have at it.

It just seems very odd that many of those who do NOT believe are so BENT on trying to convince others not to.

Just sayin'.

Am I an atheist if I believe in another God?

Benz Fan · #81 01-09-2013, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martureo

Is there a difference?

Unless you are willing to stipulate that all carpenters are Sons of God, there is quite a material difference.

aklim · #82 01-09-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

I accept he existed, however, I do not think that anyone who has been dead for several thousand years is my savior.

Jesus certainly existed, but to accept he was the son of god, you would have to believe there is a god to be son of in the first place.

When you say "he existed" do you mean a man by that name existed or do you mean the deity existed at that point? There is a difference. If you find a headstone of a man called Abraham Lincoln, would that be meaningful? Is he an Abraham Lincoln or THE Abraham Lincoln who was POTUS?

If we could prove that there is a god, or better yet, if the god can show itself, we can see clearly.

kerry · #83 01-09-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benz Fan

Am I an atheist if I believe in another God?

Spinoza was.

Mr.Kenny · #84 01-09-2013, 11:35 AM

If Jesus knew who he was (Son of God) and knew how important his ministry & message was, and his place as Savior of all mankind, past, present, and future.
If He knew his Message the most important Message ever; and he Loved us sooo much.......why didn't he write?.... Was he too busy to write?....Maybe he really didn't care???
Honestly; Why not tell the most important message ever straight from the 'horses mouth'???
If his disciples thought the message was so blasted important; why did it take 30-40 years after Jesus' death to get around to write anything down?
And Paul never even saw Jesus except on the alleged vision on Damascus road....why was Paul such an authority on Jesus?
Buddha wrote, Lao Tze wrote, Confucius wrote, etc... if he really cared; why didn't Jesus write?
This is a great puzzlement for me.....
Also why are there thousands of gods, billions of humans have fervently followed over the thousands of years; they never heard of Christ...
So according to the New Testament, the vast majority of humanity are going to be punished for all of eternity? ...And God is Love?
Why do we argue & fight over the invisible, intangible and un-measurable?

Air&Road · #85 01-09-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

How are we defining a "true" believer? By some definitions, if you don't do X, Y and Z, you are not a true believer?

Further to that, your statement means that no true believer should be without and I have seen some faithful believers that are without.

How do YOU know that they were TRUE believers?

JB3 · #86 01-09-2013, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

When you say "he existed" do you mean a man by that name existed or do you mean the deity existed at that point? There is a difference. If you find a headstone of a man called Abraham Lincoln, would that be meaningful? Is he an Abraham Lincoln or THE Abraham Lincoln who was POTUS?

If we could prove that there is a god, or better yet, if the god can show itself, we can see clearly.

A man of that name existed, I believe that. I do not believe in any deity at any time. I believe that deities are the invention of man, not the opposite.

However, concerning Jesus of Galilee, his eventual intentions are completely unknown. It very well may be that the Romans acted in their best interests eliminating the head of a subversive group in a conquered territory as they saw it.

Air&Road · #87 01-09-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB3

This statement in general is opposite of the history of the world. Its never been a question of those that don't believe trying to force not-beliefs on others. Not even on this forum.
Traditionally, those of one belief are CONSTANTLY trying to make those of other beliefs convert to theirs. The more strongly you believe in a religion, the more comfortable you feel pushing it on others, as the more convinced you are of being in the right.

Every religion has an system of pushing their religion.

I can't speak for others desire to "push" their belief on other people. I only know of my OWN activity in this regard.

Air&Road · #88 01-09-2013, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Is that like "I'm slightly pregnant"?

Does it seem odd that many who DO believe are so BENT on trying to force others to conform to their rituals? What was that parable about the beam and moat in the eyes again?

Just sayin'.

So tell me, have I PERSONALLY ever tried to convince you that you should believe in God?