The Positive - Page 14 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

P.C. · #**196** 04-04-2013, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

I do not often agree with Larry, esp on issues of religion, morality & society, but in the case of what he is talking about regarding an non rated pilot heading off into a situation as Kennedy did, he is right. Dont know & dont care if his 3 year old persona doomed him or not, but his ability to make a good risk assessment regarding his last flight (and every flight could be your last flight, that's why it is so important to be right) put him square into dead man flying territory. This ain't sailing or driving guys: the three D world of flight is a killer of the inexperienced and incautious....

He is talking about how having a baby blanket with the initials "W.H." set the stage for an airplane crash almost 3.5 decades later. That blanket had some effect, huh? Perhaps JFK Jr. accidentally covered the altimeter with it...

JB3 · #**197** 04-04-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

I do not often agree with Larry, esp on issues of religion, morality & society, but in the case of what he is talking about regarding an non rated pilot heading off into a situation as Kennedy did, he is right. Dont know & dont care if his 3 year old persona doomed him or not, but his ability to make a good risk assessment regarding his last flight (and every flight could be your last flight, that's why it is so important to be right) put him square into dead man flying territory. This ain't sailing or driving guys: the three D world of flight is a killer of the inexperienced and incautious....

like I said, no argument there. My objection is the toddler bit, you don't know and don't care, but that was the original Larry argument that started this discussion of the accident.

His other points are a lot more realistic and intelligent, though making good sense later does not mean that original preposterous claims automatically take on an air of legitimacy, which is what he apparently thinks.

Everything said about the mistakes of an overconfident pilot make perfect sense to me, that carries over into plenty of things in life. However, I believe that overconfidence in flight can certainly be born of the immediate circumstances, IE he was taking a class, and though incomplete, felt he could handle the situation.
We will never know the specific facts of what happened in the cabin, but everything points to a series of blunders that could easily be based on a sense of confidence, sure.

The one thing I don't agree with is that because he was a kennedy, he was already an elitist fool and died for that reason. Plenty of pilots die of their own hands that don't come from wealthy clans, the type of overconfidence or simple compounding mistake that ended in Jr's death is hardly specific to the kennedys as a group.

Txjake · #**198** 04-04-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

I know it was mentioned earlier, but why was suicide ruled out?

I cant really say, but the scenario of that crash is very common and there is no real indication that he in fact wished to end his life. Of course, from a conspiratorial point of view, he picked the perfect scenario....

JamesDean · #**199** 04-04-2013, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

I cant really say, but the scenario of that crash is very common and there is no real indication that he in fact wished to end his life. Of course, from a conspiratorial point of view, he picked the perfect scenario....

Aye, yeah even with no real indication you never really know though. Its still a possibility, one that will never be able to be truly ruled out. We really will never know what his mindset that night was...whether he was in a cocky/elitist/I'll show you type mindset or a state of depression or something entirely different...

link · #**200** 04-04-2013, 11:25 AM

Accidents happen all the time.

The pilot who attempted to land the first 747 at the Renton airport undershot the runway. He was one of the top pilots under Boeing employment.

Trying to create a character assassination based on an accident is specious logic at best.

But of course, consider the source of this and there’s the answer…

elchivito · #**201** 04-04-2013, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

I cant really say, but the scenario of that crash is very common and there is no real indication that he in fact wished to end his life. Of course, from a conspiratorial point of view, he picked the perfect scenario....

Wasn't he boffing the baby sitter or something?

t walgamuth · #**202** 04-04-2013, 12:40 PM

Wiki said he was having a bad few days with his wife before the accident.

I don't rule out suicide and the radio frequency question could point to sabatoge, depending on how all that is supposed to work (which I don't know).

cmbdiesel · #**203** 04-04-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

you are reaching with the felony thing now..... I guess you didnt have or know friends that had fake id growing up? Sort of an AMerican tradition. before you ask, I did not have one, but was over six feet tall in middle school and lived in a state where few places GAS how old you were regarding alcohol...

I wish I was.... things are different from when we were kids...

My first fake ID was military issue dependent ID card with my very similar in appearance brother on it.
Was so close, that I was able to use it for a real DL...

Best part was when I was with both older brothers on a trip to California. My oldest brother wanted to go to a bar, and asked if I had a fake ID.
Told him I did, but it had the other brothers name on it, (unbeknownst to him) and if he got pissed about me having it, he was going to have to step in the middle..

First bar, we all got carded, and the bouncer somehow didn't realize that two out of three people had the exact same name...

cmbdiesel · #**204** 04-04-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

I would suggest that you go on a pilot discussion forum and bring up the subject and see what their opinion will be. If you get even one of them, that is even remotely familiar with the flight and the pilot, to not tell you that he was a dead man flying, I will be quite surprised.

Of course, I'm sure you won't do that because it might take away some of your desire to CONTINUALLY bully me over the issue.

opinions are like a55holes....

I'm not bullying you, I just can't abide your systematic defamation and character assassination of a dead man.....

Botnst · #**205** 04-04-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Enrolled and attending classes does not make one qualified as being proficient...

Hey, I could do it! I fly Microsoft Flight Simulator. I'm THAT good!

cmbdiesel · #**206** 04-04-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

You REALLY need to go take flying lessons and see what is involved before you draw conclusions with no knowledge at all about what you are saying.

Even with ZERO flight knowledge or experience, you should be able to figure out that the phase of the moon and weather conditions will not be the same for every flight. If he would have had enough moonlight along with a clear sky to take advantage of the moonlight AND he properly prepared for night vision, etc., he could have flown based on visual refereences.

Deciding to make that flight on that night made him a dead man flying, PERIOD!

and we reframe the position again....

Actually, what made him a dead man was the plane crash into the sea.
Your opinion that he was doomed when he took off is pure speculation, yet again.
No one knows what happened in that cockpit, so no one can say with the degree of certainty which you display, what happened to cause him to fly into the sea.

To hear you tell it, he did it on purpose because he expected the sea to part before him....

Botnst · #**207** 04-04-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Not sure that the probability is as high as one would like, but saying it is very low....
If the probability were that low, he would not have been allowed to make the flight in the first place.
He had made the same flight at night 5 times previously.....

It's the pilot's decision whether or not to fly.

I ran with scissors at night 5 times and nothing happened.