Well, if there is no truth that your sad faith is sticking it's nose into affairs of others, do feel free to say so instead of trying to beat around the proverbial bush.

Ask yourself this. What is the reason they buy influence in the Republican party? Could it be the same reasons like gay groups, labor unions, etc, etc, buy influence in the Democrats? Or are you trying to say it is a tax write off with no other hopes of getting influence?

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There have been plenty of power trippers in positions of authority in various religions for some time but there is a lot more to the history of spiritual/religious pursuit than that. Heaven and hell are more like states of mind that you can be in here and now, not after some grim reaper/St. Peter moment.

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Kinda like heroine. Limited use and too much opportunity for abuse

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Speaking strictly to the OP poll, I'd say satan/hell plays an even greater role than heaven/god for almost all religions to work. Without satan/hell, people would be free to live without any religious boundaries, since there is no risk to offend their spiritual diety. Without hell, people have no incentive to 'do the right thing'.

That very belief allows a well run scheme to continue. Churches/temples are run like businesses; typically the most important aspect of a successful church/temple is a stable, contributing base. A good pastor is much like a CEO - and their primary focus is typically using their personality to maximize tithes/offerings for the church/temple. However, they have to constantly target the 'next' generation. If they fail to do so, or lose market share, then their revenue stream could dry up. Without new money in, they face extinction.

Look at some of the successful pastors - people like Rick Warren, or Pat Robertson. Much like very successful CEOs, their personal net worth is in the multi-millions. I find it quite hilarious that religious sheep (including those on this thread) don't dare question the way their religious organizations are run.

Personally, though I'm not Christian, I have great respect for this man Jesus (whether or not he existed). However, it's really quite hilarious to hear the RWNJ's touting christianity/religion, when in fact their very beliefs are so far from what Jesus taught.

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"Time's never wasted when you're wasted all the time"

A few remarks.

1) As someone in Seminary and currently pursuing ordination as a pastor, no money is not the object. Many pastors I know of struggle with the church board over whether the church should be in the black or the red, or even whether the church should have more than one savings account. If anything it is usually the church board who wants more money, the pastor keeps giving it away. (But if you're exposed to the televangelist type, yes I can see how this opinion is made)

2) Pat Robertson and Rick Warren are two completely different ends of the spectrum. Both give most of their income away, but one moreso than the other.

3) Jesus did exist. Even the great NT scholar and master skeptic Bart Ehrman makes that quite clear.

4) And you'll find no rebuttal concerning the RWNJs from me. I've been fighting that ilk for years. Heck, I'm considering not voting again when election time comes up. That statement alone has got me screamed at.

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Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat

I recondition w123/w126/w124/w140/r107/r129/ steering boxes!


1984 300D "Elsa" odo reset 6/2011 147k
1983 300TD "Mitzi" ~268k OM603 powered
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Looks like Robertson was giving his money away to Charles Taylor in exchange for gold mining rights: Pat Robertson's Liberian Gold Deal - ABC News

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My apology - you're quite right about point '1'. I was generalizing and should not have. There are a lot of smaller churches that do important work - I see/hear about it almost every day in inner city LA. And you're also probably right about '2'.

I really want to believe that Jesus existed - maybe all hope is not lost for mankind.

Regarding '4' - well, I know this will get a lot of tempers flared. The very folks that are ready to dehumanize gays, declare endless wars, pratice predatory capitalism and love to shoot first then ask questions later, seem to be the people screaming the loudest about christianity/religion. As far as I recall, Jesus seemed to be a socialist, did not own a gun and accepted people from all walks of life.

BTW, I think you'll make an excellent pastor - you seem to be a level headed and patient person. I really wish you the very best!

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"Time's never wasted when you're wasted all the time"

Pat Robertson represents the worst in man. He's no different than Judas in my opinion.

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"Time's never wasted when you're wasted all the time"

The purpose of religion is to scare people into compliance. Plain and simple. Screw up and you will be punished doesn't work as well. Why? Crimes happen and many are unsolved regardless of what the CSI and others tell you. This means, if you outwit your fellow man, you are home free. But wait! Even if you do, you will pay for it in the next life. That you cannot get way from. This means that if you steal, you will get punished in the next life AT THE VERY LEAST. If you don't, you will be punished in BOTH lives. Although, I do question this. IF you believe that your deity will punish you and you behave, are you really a good person? Isn't that like saying that if we keep you in a medically induced coma, you don't do bad things and are therefore good?

Or a bunch of new suckers to the faith, they will. That could explain why they are against homosexuality. It means no kids. No kids, smaller flock. Smaller flock means more vulnerable to other groups.

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I have always said that given the means, opportunity and the right amount of motivation and man will do bad. PR was just fortunate that he had all 3 and in large amounts.

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Well said. Religion for many has been a guise from day one. Create the illusion that you are a good person.

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Mike Murrell
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I like how Ghandi put it:

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

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I strongly suspect a number here and elsewhere realize the difference between the politicians they vote for, and the juxt opposed position of the Bible they thump every Sunday morning. I believe that's one description of hypocrits, that Jesus warned us about. However, that doesn't change anything in their behaviors. Unfortunately, serving their political party has taken priority over the religion in their lives.

Well, aklim, no one can serve two Masters, RE: The Bible. Were you to "have read the Bible twice," as you've claimed here in the past, you would have known that, no?

You too? Oh, the irony.......

It's equally hilarious to hear the LWNJ's touting christianity/religion, when in fact their very beliefs are so far from what Jesus taught.

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Correct.

As Billy Clinton stated when he lost an election; "I'll never be out-Christianed again in a political campaign."

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I'm not sure I follow you logic. What has my reading the bible got to do with subscribing to the beliefs outlined in it?

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